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HSmom

Guest CHAT 8/2 Non-firearm Weaponry

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This week, our own Vic303 has agreed to educate us about non-gun weapons. This is a topic that many of you have requested, so I hope you'll all come to chat!

 

Thursday chat times are 7-9 am Pacific, 8-10 am Mountain, 9-11 am Central, and 10am - noon Eastern. Depending on the flow of discussion, the topic will occupy the first 60 - 90 minutes of the session, with time for chit-chat after. The formal, on-topic portion of the chat will be saved and posted to this thread, so don't say anything you don't want recorded forever!

 

If you participate in a saved chat, you should review the posted log and make sure you haven’t divulged any personal information. If you find something that you said that you would like edited, please PM me. If I do not reply in a timely manner, you may PM Darlene.

 

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I'll be there...barring a total loss of internet access...we're getting new service tomorrow, so I HOPE it will all be running fine by Thursday!

 

-Vic

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Was this chat saved, or was there a problem? Not wanting to nag, just curious...

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[HSmom] 7:12 am: FIrst we have to decide it's time to start....which it probably is. Four is a nice number of people.

[] 7:12 am: Me too, HS! That wouldve been BAD

[HSmom] 7:13 am: Then I'll introduce you and we'll all listen with rapt attention while you expound profoundly on the topic at hand - no pressure! wink

[] 7:13 am: So, tis is "everything but guns" day chat?

[] 7:13 am: Then teacher calls us to order and we have to behave

[] 7:13 am: i'm ready i guess

[buttercup] 7:13 am: Organized chat?

[] 7:13 am: yeah

[] 7:14 am: You say stuff, and we heckle you with questions...

[HSmom] 7:14 am: Order, order...As always this chat will be saved to the archive so don't say anything you don't want recorded forever - or if you do, let me know and I'll edit it out.

[buttercup] 7:14 am: Ok I'll watch intently.

[HSmom] 7:15 am: I asked Vic303 to be our guest today because I determined taht she is very knowledgeable on weaponry. I've had a lot of requests for chats on NON-gun weapons, so here we are.

[HSmom] 7:15 am: Please join me in welcoming her! *golf clap*

[] 7:15 am: Applause, hooozahs!

[] 7:15 am: Oh...thank you , thank you.... wink

[buttercup] 7:15 am: clap

[] 7:16 am: wolf whistle

[HSmom] 7:16 am: Organized just means that we stay on topic for at least an hour, Buttercup.

[] 7:16 am: oops

[] 7:16 am: I'll behave, teacher.

[HSmom] 7:16 am: So, Vic, do have someplace you'd like to start or shall I toss out a question?

[HSmom] 7:16 am: *swats Leah*

[] 7:16 am: I will toss out one to y'all: What do YOU think of whenyou think of a weapon that is NOT a gun?

[buttercup] 7:17 am: Baseball bats

[buttercup] 7:17 am: Mace

[] 7:17 am: Long sticks/staffs

[HSmom] 7:17 am: A club, a knife, pepper spray

[] 7:17 am: What else?

[buttercup] 7:17 am: knives

[] 7:17 am: Anything I can throw.

[buttercup] 7:17 am: Hands

[] 7:17 am: Remind me not to p.o. buttercup!

[] 7:17 am: bow and arrows

[HSmom] 7:18 am: lol

[buttercup] 7:18 am: LOL.. Hands could be lethal if you know how to use them I have heard!

[] 7:18 am: Ok, that's a pretty good set of choices folks. Which of them to you have in your house?

[HSmom] 7:18 am: Lots of things can be a club.

[] 7:18 am: I don't have a mace or any pepper spray...

[] 7:19 am: Hands & feet can be plenty lethal...even if you don't know how to use them properly--plenty of folks have been beaten to death by the untrained masses.

[buttercup] 7:19 am: Bats, hands, plates

[HSmom] 7:19 am: I have kitchen knives but don't feel confident that I could defend myself with one.

[HSmom] 7:19 am: I have pepper spray, but it's not a good one (still need to order Fox).

[] 7:19 am: Just get pissed - you can do it.

[buttercup] 7:20 am: That's true Leah.. But when I get really po'd I can't think straight.

[buttercup] 7:21 am: But I have never had to defend myself or my family before.

[] 7:21 am: Not panicky, get cold mad.

[HSmom] 7:22 am: Vic? You typing?

[] 7:22 am: What sort of things do you like, Vic?

[HSmom] 7:23 am: Or chasing the monkeys away from the popsicles again?

[HSmom] 7:23 am: smile

[buttercup] 7:23 am: In the home I suppose there are several things you could use.. Perhaps breaking a coffee pot across ones face or head.

[buttercup] 7:24 am: Grab a thing of cayanne pepper and throw it in their face.

[] 7:24 am: Chasing monkeys down in the kitchen, sorry folks--they were restless & hungry

[HSmom] 7:24 am: ouch!

[HSmom] 7:24 am: to the pepper.

[HSmom] 7:24 am: That's okay Vic.

[buttercup] 7:25 am: Most of us have some kind of pepper spice in the cupboard.

[] 7:25 am: Kitchens are the most dangerous place in the house, lots of weapons there.

[] 7:25 am: Pepper spray would work better than cayenne only because it is already set to deploy--cayenne you have to stop & open up. If your spice cabinet is like mine, you'll never find itin a hurry either!

[] 7:25 am: The hardest thing about non-firearm weapons is nearly all of them require youto be TOO close to your attacker

[buttercup] 7:25 am: But would you have to carry your pepper spray with you at all times even in your own home?

[] 7:26 am: I have some by the front door. Just in case

[HSmom] 7:26 am: Buttercup, I carry my gun around the house frequently. Not all the time, but often.

[] 7:26 am: What about dogs? Even if they are not a true weapon untrained, they are a GOOD deterrent!

[] 7:27 am: Our bow will shoot like a gun, from a distance, but most non-gun weapons don't. Do you know of any that will keep them back?

[buttercup] 7:27 am: Vic I am curious... Could we make our own pepper spray using water, peppers and a spray bottle?

[] 7:27 am: I spent yesterday armed with 1911 due to allthe workerbees in my house ALL day and most of the night doing the Uverse install.

[HSmom] 7:27 am: Oh, I agree! My (fairly new) dog barks at everything that goes by. My dh is trying to train him OUT of it!!!! I WANT to be the house with that dog that snarls & barks viciously thru the fence.

[] 7:28 am: Buttercup, you wouldn't get quite the effect you want--the mix would deteriorate and you'd need to use oil as a solvent and carrier to get it to stick better. Try ammonia mixed with water in a squirt bottle. works good on dogs

[HSmom] 7:28 am: Commercial pepper spray shoots 20 feet, but it doesn't always have the desired effect.

[] 7:28 am: HS, you need my Charlie! LOL

[] 7:28 am: Anything can be a weapon if you can get it in the eyes...

[] 7:29 am: Even snot

[buttercup] 7:29 am: Well let's hope it's flu season then!

[] 7:29 am: For being out in the 'woods' I like to take a wooden hiking staff. Good for whacking strays, moving snakes, and gives you 5-6' of reach on a 2legged opponent

[] 7:30 am: Put a sharp metal tip on it and it is mor eeffective.

[buttercup] 7:30 am: I suppose it could have a whittled point at the end as well.

[] 7:30 am: Withpepper spray the biggest probs are ineffectiveness on drug users, and the tendency of it to drift back on YOU

[buttercup] 7:31 am: Why is it ineffective on drug users?

[] 7:31 am: Whittled point on the non-ground end would be ok, other wise it will wear out too quick

[] 7:31 am: Be careful of your local laws - if you adapt that stick it can be considered too much of a weapon

[] 7:31 am: THeir systems are too overloaded--their brain fails to process the pain properly.

[buttercup] 7:32 am: So I guess since I live in Meth County Illinois I should think of other alternatives besides pepper spray.

[HSmom] 7:33 am: We've touched on in the home and in the woods... what about the grocery store, library, parking lots?

[buttercup] 7:33 am: If your handbag is heavy enough you could knock them over the head with it.

[] 7:33 am: Pepperspray (Fox OC is considered the best) comes in 3 dispersal patterns usually. Mist (drifts too much but works better on the lungs), Stream (best distance, but you have to aim it) and Cone fog (think heavy fog droplets-Like a shotgun you don't have to aim it as accurately and it does not drift as much

[] 7:34 am: Grocery store--Hmm...keep your keys ready in your strong hand. be prepared to either swing a bag of groceries at them, or drop all your goods and run!

[buttercup] 7:35 am: Also what about wearing a whistle around your neck.

[] 7:35 am: In store, you can trhow stuff at folks--whistle is good for alerting others but by itself is not a weapon.

[buttercup] 7:36 am: I am getting off the weapon trail and going into defense

[] 7:37 am: In the van I keep a 'tire knocker' made of Osage ORange, about 19" long with a lanyard loop thru the end. Good for thumping tires to check pressure! grin

[] 7:37 am: It's short enough toemploy in the van if needed.

[The Lounge]: pauline has entered at 7:37 am

[] 7:37 am: Weapons... scarf to choke them, keys to stab, feet to kick their knees to the side

[] 7:38 am: Scarf is more likely to be used against YOU. After all, if you have it you are likely to be wearing it already. Makes a nice grabhandle...

[pauline] 7:38 am: morning sorry i am late

[HSmom] 7:38 am: I once read on the internet - so you know it's true wink - that in your typical parking lot encounter with a bad guy, a woman is knocked to the ground in the first 6 seconds. Then what?

[buttercup] 7:38 am: if male use your knee to knock them in the groin

[] 7:38 am: My purse not heavy enough...

[HSmom] 7:38 am: Good morning Pauline! smile

[] 7:38 am: What about the classic broken beer bottle? Ever see somebody sliced up? It's MESSY!

[] 7:39 am: Buttercup, every guy I have EVER met knows instinctively how to deflect a knee shot to th e'parts'. You can usually only get thru if you have already inflicted another injury that distracts their attention/

[] 7:39 am: I wear it because I know how to use it. What weapon officer? You mean my scarf?

[] 7:39 am: Your best defense is to be aware of them before they get close enough to hit you.

[] 7:40 am: Morning, Pauline!

[] 7:40 am: If you get knocked to the ground and are conscious, try rolling UNDER a parked car. At least they cannot get you, provided youdon't pick THEIR car to roll under!

[HSmom] 7:40 am: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[] 7:41 am: What was that saying...SING?

[HSmom] 7:41 am: SING?

[buttercup] 7:41 am: LOL Leah I was just thinking the same thing

[] 7:41 am: Solar plexis, instep, nose, groin..

[] 7:41 am: 'course, if they knock you down they are probably not trying to kidnap you. AT that point, give them your purse or whatever they were trying to steal provided it is not one of your kids!

[] 7:42 am: Down, up, down, up!

[HSmom] 7:42 am: Definiately THINGS are not worth defending.

[buttercup] 7:42 am: I saw Mrs Congeniality and I can't remember what the solar plexis is

[] 7:43 am: lower center of the rib cage in front.

[] 7:43 am: Myself, I go for knees. Kick them sideways, the bad guy is stopped from coming after you.

[buttercup] 7:43 am: I guess the most important weapon you can have on you is your mind.. The ability to think through the situation and stay calm.

[] 7:44 am: Buttercup has a great point.

[buttercup] 7:44 am: All the weapons in the world will do me no good if I panic

[] 7:44 am: Right. We talked earlier about getting 'cold mad'.

[buttercup] 7:45 am: define cold mad..

[] 7:45 am: You need to learn how to compartmentalize your feelings.

[] 7:46 am: You need to think fast too. Indecision kills.

[HSmom] 7:46 am: I find myself shrinking away from several comments - based on their level of grossness...

[] 7:46 am: what do you mean, hs?

[] 7:47 am: Have you ever been in a car crash or something like that?

[buttercup] 7:47 am: No I have never been...

[] 7:47 am: Nothing serious.

[HSmom] 7:47 am: Going for the eyes, cutting/stabbing with a knife... those really bother me. I'm not saying their bad to do. I'm saying my reaction is a prissy "ewww".

[] 7:47 am: You shove the panic to the side and deal with getting the people out and safe.

[buttercup] 7:47 am: Knockin on wood

[] 7:47 am: Panic later.

[] 7:48 am: The cold mad is what is left when those other feelings are to one side.

[] 7:49 am: Kind of a.... I'll do what I need to do to get through this.

[] 7:49 am: HS, that's why a firearm is 'easy'. You get distance & that tends to equal safety. Plus the simple visual deterrent if you draw it.

[] 7:49 am: Am I making any sense?

[buttercup] 7:50 am: I understand what you are saying Leah.

[HSmom] 7:50 am: I agree about the firearm being 'easy'. But it bothers me that I'm acting like a shrinking violet. Am I gonna do that in the real deal?

[] 7:50 am: Yea leah you are. BTW, NEVER get in the car with your attacker. Your odds of survival plummet at that point. You are better off going hellbent for leather on them before then--even if they have a firearm on you.

[] 7:50 am: Afterwards you can have the luxury of falling apart - and you will.

[HSmom] 7:50 am: Leah, yes, you're making sence. As a nurse, I can do the panic later thing.

[] 7:51 am: Then you know how to do it. You won't be a shrinking violet.

[] 7:51 am: HS, do you tend to run scenarios thru your mind of 'what if"? and then plan what you would do about it?

[] 7:52 am: I find it helps to think things thru--not the same as true practice, but better than being oblivious.

[pauline] 7:53 am: perfect sense Leah, Hs, it's not really a shrinking violet reaction as you are prepared to use force if neccesary but would prefer it to be a distance not up super close and personal violence if something happened and you had to you would do up close to protect yourself and your family

[HSmom] 7:53 am: That's a good idea Vic...go thru it mentally. It might help to harden me and also to walk thru the different components that bother me...

[buttercup] 7:54 am: non-gun weapon... are we talking things that will temporaily stun or things that will end the situation all together as in kill?

[HSmom] 7:54 am: For example if the bad guysblood got on me... ewwww! But... I can think thru know and remind myself that it'd bebetter to be bled upon than raped & killed... or my children hurt

[buttercup] 7:54 am: I know that's probably a stupid question. Every siutation is different.

[] 7:54 am: either & or both, BC. Taser is an option but those do have a tendency to kill unexpectedly...

[] 7:55 am: HS, better his blood on you than your blood on him.

[buttercup] 7:55 am: IN some instances pepper spray will allow you to run to safety.

[pauline] 7:55 am: buttercup i am thinking either one as long as you are the one to walk away not the attacker

[buttercup] 7:56 am: As long as their is only one attacker.

[HSmom] 7:56 am: Do tasers typically(every area has dofferent laws) require a permit? What about training?

[buttercup] 7:56 am: there even

[] 7:56 am: Taser claymores for perimiter defense. No joke any more. http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/10/tasers-...ook-like-a-pri/

[] 7:56 am: My instinct is to stop them - prevent them from moving so I can get away.

[] 7:57 am: Not in TX HS, that I know of. Yet in Boston MA, even pepper spray requires a permit ! shocked

[] 7:57 am: If I can I will just dislocate something, if not I will do whatever is necessary.

[HSmom] 7:57 am: Thats MA for you!

[buttercup] 7:58 am: If it's in your own home though Leah.. DO you stop them and run with your family or do you stay and protect your home?

[] 7:58 am: My home=my castle.

[] 7:59 am: As of next month, there is no legal duty to retreat in your home.

[] 7:59 am: I stop them and run

[] 7:59 am: Next door.

[buttercup] 7:59 am: What does that mean VIC?

[HSmom] 7:59 am: Wow that's SOME taser!

[] 8:00 am: That means if a BG enters your home while you are in it, you are not required by law to retreat rather than defend your home/self.

[] 8:00 am: Some states require you to attempt to leave the area if a BG breaks into your occuipied home.

[pauline] 8:00 am: my home they will be stopped and hauled away in a body bag if need be but preferrably by LEO if they are available to come pick up the person

[] 8:00 am: Frankly, I don't want to have to defend myself in court for defending myself. I do only what is necessary.

[buttercup] 8:01 am: LEO?

[] 8:01 am: But I WILL do everything necessary.

[pauline] 8:01 am: Law enforcment officer

[HSmom] 8:01 am: Law Enforcement Officer

[] 8:01 am: In TX the phrase taught to folks in concealed carry class is "I shot to stop the aggressive act". I don't want to kill someone--I just want them to STOP!

[buttercup] 8:02 am: Ah thanks for clarifying

[HSmom] 8:02 am: That might be more difficult to prove if you've repeatedly struck or stabbed an assailent

[] 8:03 am: Depends, HS... are they still on their feet choking or hitting you? If yes, then they have NOT stopped their aggressive act.

[HSmom] 8:03 am: When exactly should you have stopped? KWIM?

[] 8:03 am: I'm a gray-haired little old lady in my own space. I don't think people will believe I went and attacked a big strong young man just for the heck of it.

[] 8:04 am: There is also something called in legal circles, Disparity of Force--like what Leah just posted--she's a LOL and that big ol' thug is coming after her

[] 8:04 am: KWIM?

[] 8:06 am: HS, basically you stop after they are no longer perceived to be a threat to you. If that's cause they ran away, fine. If they are on the ground bleeding, call them an ambulance and the cops.

[] 8:06 am: --Brb- gotta change a monkey

[HSmom] 8:06 am: I think Paxton Quigly wrote that nearly every male attacking a female situation includes Disparity of Force, and that women can feel free (from a legal standpoint) to defend themselves.

[] 8:06 am: Call from next door

[HSmom] 8:06 am: How are you getting out Leah? Patio doors, low windows?

[buttercup] 8:07 am: Leah in my situation there is no next door that isn't over a half a mile away

[HSmom] 8:07 am: Then BC, you might have to be a bit more aggressive in stopping a threat.

[buttercup] 8:07 am: exactly HS

[] 8:08 am: I do not have the luxury of fighting fair. The person will most likely have age, weight, etc advantage of me. All I have is the fact I'm not getting in that car unless I'm already dead.

[buttercup] 8:09 am: well right now it wouldn't be hard to hide.. Our here we are surrounded by corn 7-8 ft tall.. I usually have my cell phone on me.

[buttercup] 8:09 am: That should have been "out here"

[HSmom] 8:09 am: Good choice Leah. Never, EVER EVER!!! go to a 'secondary location'.

[HSmom] 8:09 am: BC what about in the winter, when the corn is gone and the ground is blanket of white?

[] 8:09 am: Whenever I go into a new room or situation, I access the escape routes, and weapons situation.

[] 8:10 am: I grew up in a scary place.

[buttercup] 8:10 am: You do that all the time Leah?

[buttercup] 8:10 am: I suppose it's second nature to you then

[] 8:10 am: Always.

[pauline] 8:10 am: exactly Leah you are always prepared by being aware of your surroundings at all times

[] 8:10 am: That's good planning leah. I tend to try to pick seats in public places where I havea good view of the room and my back to a wall.

[] 8:11 am: On a ferry, I can tell you where the lifeboats and floatation devices are.

[] 8:11 am: I know how to get out the back door of the restaurant.

[buttercup] 8:11 am: I have a very bad connection today so If I am gone you'll understand why.

[] 8:11 am: In a motel, I count the number of doors to the exits--smoke fire & confusion can make it hard to find your way out.

[] 8:12 am: If you're near me, just follow me - I'll get you out.

[buttercup] 8:12 am: I typed I have never been afraid in my own home..

[buttercup] 8:12 am: SO I have never had that thought pattern.

[HSmom] 8:12 am: Side note: we were in a hotel earlier this year. I noticed they had exit signs down low, as well as up high.

[] 8:12 am: I have.

[] 8:12 am: You can learn it.

[buttercup] 8:13 am: I mean you always daydream things.. The what if's

[] 8:14 am: Ah but BC, most folks don't think about the bad what-ifs they concentrate on the 'what if i won th elottery, etc

[HSmom] 8:14 am: BC, I'm glad you feel safe in your home. That's good, but I hope you do realize that your safety could be compromised. Go thru your home, do the what if's, then go on feeling safe. If what-if ever happens, you'll have a plan.

[HSmom] 8:14 am: lol @ Vic. Although that is sadly true.

[] 8:14 am: by running bad scenarios, you are a step ahead of many of the folks around you.

[] 8:14 am: Right. If it's dark where do I park my car; who am I parking next to...

[] 8:14 am: If I need to run, where can I go?

[buttercup] 8:15 am: No I'd say I am a doomer "what if" person

[] 8:15 am: Who lives in that house - know those neighbors...

[buttercup] 8:15 am: I mean I read Shatter on TimeBomb

[] 8:15 am: One of the biggest things you can do in your favor in any scenario is to listen to that "uh-oh" in the back of your head--you know, the one that syas 'something's not right here'--something's funny about that person.

[] 8:16 am: The best defense is never to need it. Avoid the situation if possible. Trust those instincts!

[buttercup] 8:16 am: and yeah it scared me..So I guess I'd say that saying I never thought about it would be untrue...I just haven't ever dwelled on it and made concrete what if plans.

[] 8:16 am: BC did you read Deep Winter first?

[buttercup] 8:17 am: Yes

[] 8:18 am: Anybody have a specific question?

[buttercup] 8:19 am: Did we decide what best non - gun weapon was to have?

[HSmom] 8:19 am: I think that's going to vary by situation and availability

[] 8:20 am: For me it would go by distance. Farther away is best.

[buttercup] 8:20 am: Or perhaps it was knowledge, calmness and keeping our minds sharp

[] 8:20 am: Panic later.

[buttercup] 8:20 am: Righ Leah

[buttercup] 8:20 am: RIght even

[] 8:20 am: The best non-gun distance weapon you'r egonna find is a bow/arrow or crossbow, but they take practice and skill like a firearm

[buttercup] 8:21 am: I would say that goes with the Knowledge part then

[] 8:21 am: Next would be throwing weapons, I think

[] 8:22 am: The best close in weapon, is your mind, and it's ability to use whatever is at hand as a weapon for your defense. I mean, a cup of hot coffee was recently popular as a robbery weapon in DFW. Guy would buy coffee at teh quickiemart and then throw it at the cashier as they got him his change. He'd reach into the open cash drawer and flee.

[buttercup] 8:22 am: what kind of throwing weapons ?

[HSmom] 8:22 am: Oh, we didn't mention slingshots.

[] 8:22 am: Throwing weapons are a one-shot deal. You throw it, and now it is gone. Plus they can throw it back at you...

[HSmom] 8:22 am: Or ninja stars! lol

[buttercup] 8:23 am: I wouldn't think a sling shot would be fast enough to stop them

[buttercup] 8:23 am: unless your a really good aim

[] 8:24 am: Let's see, I have within reach as I type; a set of throwing knives, a coffee cup, a bunch of bottles, a large flashlight, a 2 pound crystal sphere...

[buttercup] 8:25 am: I have a big staple gun computer speakers, a large bottle of aspirin, computer chair

[HSmom] 8:26 am: I have a hot cup of tea, three large pairs of scissors, pens, an old cell phone charger (cord for strangling)...ummm... my "entertainment" book (thick coupon book). Oh, yeah a stapler, and a heavy scotch tape dispenser.

[] 8:26 am: 2 coffee cups, a handvacuum, a bag of brass, a lansky sharpener, 1 leatherman, 1 spyderco a phone, and probably th ebest weapon is the power cord & giant wall-wart for the laptop! I can swing that and reach out & whack someone!

[] 8:26 am: If we want to get icky, I have a set of chisels (which I would only use to defend life- yuk), a rock collection with fist-sized rocks...

[HSmom] 8:26 am: But as far as throwing any of those, like Vic said once they're gone, they're gone.

[] 8:26 am: All that;swithin arms reach. the firearms are across the room.

[pauline] 8:27 am: I have 4 pocket knifes various sizes ,stapler, scissors, binders,phone, guns,

[buttercup] 8:27 am: see the guns are under the bed here.. Hunting knives are downstairs.

[] 8:27 am: Ain't we just a bunch of gentle creatures...:D

[HSmom] 8:27 am: Oh, my multi-tool is sitting here too... under a paper.

[] 8:27 am: Don't throw that!

[buttercup] 8:28 am: shells and bullets aren't even in the same place as the guns.

[HSmom] 8:28 am: Absolutely Leah, Ah just cahn't abide an unladylike lady! *blink, flutter, fan*

[] 8:28 am: BC, unless you are kid-proofing the guns, I'd store at least one of them loaded personally.

[buttercup] 8:28 am: Now if I were downstairs.. Since i haven't put away dishes I have several pots pans plates etc that could be thrown

[buttercup] 8:29 am: I have a 9 year old still living at home

[] 8:29 am: I've got 3 under 6yrs old & have loaded firearms here.

[HSmom] 8:29 am: Vic, you have monkeys, would you mind telling how you store firearms at home. I'll tell you mine... (sorry for the drift folks)

[pauline] 8:31 am: buttercup the bed is about 8 inches behind me with the guns under it one is loaded and in a combo locked gun case then i have 3 antique ones on the wall that would work as guns or bludgening weapons

[buttercup] 8:31 am: I am totally paranoid of loaded guns when they aren't being used.. My dad accidentally shot himself in the head once (just a graze thank God) My brother shot a hole completely through his bedroom door out the wall of the side of the house...And my Grandfather commited suicide using a gun.. So I am a bit paranoid of guns being loaded.

[HSmom] 8:31 am: We have a little mechanical (not electronic) pushbotton safe in our headboard. The kids NEVER see the combo. If we're not wearing our pistols, they are in there. Also in there are full magazines. Dh loads his mag into his pistol, but doesn't chamber it. I keep my mag next to the pistol because when I do carry it, I do chamber a round.

[HSmom] 8:33 am: BC, I'm sorry to hear about your Grandfather. How old were your dad and brother when those events happened? I'm curious because the four rules of firearm safety are redundant. If you follow most of them, you are unlikely to have a problem. If you follow all of them, you shouldn't ever have a problem.

[buttercup] 8:34 am: My brother was probably 15 or 16

[] 8:34 am: BC, I can understand your reasons for not wanting loaded firearms around then.

[] 8:35 am: HS

[buttercup] 8:35 am: I'd feel differently if we had a locked gunsafe.. But All we have is that wooden gun rack that hangs on the wall.

[pauline] 8:35 am: i can understand your feelings about loaded guns

[] 8:35 am: BTW I carry cocked&locked (ie: round chambered, safety on)

[buttercup] 8:36 am: we don't even own a handgun

[HSmom] 8:37 am: Glocks here, no external safety, which is why dh won't carry chambered. I just keep my "boogerhook off the bang switch."

[] 8:37 am: When I was a kid, we used to have a loaded shotgun over the top of each bedroom door. Came in handy a few times - once a bear, once a bad guy.

[HSmom] 8:37 am: (finger off the trigger)

[buttercup] 8:38 am: lol it looks a if our non gun weapon chat still ended up with guns...

[HSmom] 8:38 am: I'd like to do that Leah, but as of yet, don't feel the kids are ready. They understand the rules, and I don't think they'd mess with it, but they are still too young (IMO) to be trusted that much.

[HSmom] 8:38 am: Sorry about that Buttercup! I can edit it out, if you like. wink

[buttercup] 8:38 am: OH no don't do that.

[buttercup] 8:38 am: Guns are the weapon of choice I understand that

[The Lounge]: MtRider has entered at 8:39 am

[buttercup] 8:39 am: We have guns and i believe in the right to carry them

[HSmom] 8:39 am: But not everyone is comfortable with a gun.

[] 8:39 am: Hey, mtr

[HSmom] 8:39 am: Plus they sometimes malfunction.

[HSmom] 8:39 am: Or are not available.

[] 8:39 am: They did a test all over the country with the FBI. They went to schools all over, made a speech, left a gun on a table while the grownups left the room on an emergency

[HSmom] 8:39 am: That's why we have these conversations.

[] 8:39 am: Sure, HS

[HSmom] 8:39 am: Good morning MtRider! smile

[buttercup] 8:40 am: Hiya MTR

[] 8:40 am: The kids didn't know it, but there were cameras set up to record what happened

[HSmom] 8:40 am: What happened Leah?

[] 8:40 am: Those kids were chosen--I've seen that vid. It was a set up.

[pauline] 8:40 am: i don't think i would want a loaded weapon above a door with my kids right now and 2 are teens the third is 3 but the way my son bangs the door i am afraid the gun would fall on his head

[] 8:40 am: In every single case the weapons were picked up by the boys and played with.

[MtRider] 8:40 am: 'Morning everyone. I'm going in 6 directions this a.m.

[pauline] 8:41 am: morning mtrider

[] 8:41 am: Oddly enough the girls didn't touch them.

[] 8:41 am: Of course--it's hardwired into boys to play with those sorts of things.

[HSmom] 8:41 am: What age children?

[] 8:41 am: The key is to teach kids how to handle firearms safely!

[] 8:41 am: I believe it was from gradeschool to high school.

[] 8:41 am: :vic getting off her high horse now: lol

[buttercup] 8:42 am: My 16 year old just went through a gun and hunter safety course.. He had to do that or couldn't get a hunting license.

[HSmom] 8:43 am: Part of 'gun-proofing ' our kids is showing them what guns do - I still need to shoot up a watermelon. The second part is letting them fire them. My 8yo loves the .22 rifle and really wnated to try the .22 pistol. She did understand how a smaller gun could be more difficult to handle. We helped her to fire it and it scared her. I think that (temporarily) cured her.

[HSmom] 8:44 am: Alrighty MtRider, since you sashayed in here late...quiz time! What non-gun weapons do you have lying around your home? What about within reach right now?

[pauline] 8:44 am: i need to call and get my 13 yr old in hunters ed so he can get his license he already has a shotgun but the ammo is kept with his dads and mine, not with his gun in his room.

[] 8:45 am: I think the reason we get into guns, is that we want to keep the threat as far away as possible. Guns are the best way to do that. When they are illegal, we need to talk about alternatives.

[buttercup] 8:45 am: Well ya'll I need to run.. Thanks for all the insight girls! Till next time!

[HSmom] 8:45 am: Thanks for coming Buttercup!

[pauline] 8:45 am: have a good day buttercup

[] 8:45 am: Bye, Buttercup! Nice chatting with you!

[The Lounge]: Buttercup has left at 8:46 am

[] 8:47 am: Unfortunatly, non-guns seem to let the threat get closer.

[HSmom] 8:47 am: Are we done ladies? Anymore comments or questions?

[] 8:47 am: I can't think of any.

[MtRider] 8:48 am: scissors, water bottle flung at someone, fork, hammer, screwdrivers, can of WD40, phone calling 911, 'attack dog' happens to be outside, (attack cat hides under the bed)lol, flashlite, the chair I sit in, edge of a hard cover book, jar of change flung at -- ooo lookie, money!

[MtRider] 8:48 am: Did I pass, HS?

[HSmom] 8:48 am: Not bad MtR!

[] 8:48 am: I love it - someone else who has screwdrivers next to the computer!

[HSmom] 8:48 am: I'll give you a "Pass" yes. If you want a letter grade... um... what do you think Vic?

[] 8:48 am: Yeah not bad mtr

[] 8:49 am: youneed a lighter with that can of wd40 though!

[MtRider] 8:49 am: Got martial arts background so my own hands and feet, elbows, knees etc.

[HSmom] 8:49 am: We'll give you a B+ for not having a lighter. lol

[] 8:50 am: What about the stick, eh?

[MtRider] 8:50 am: in the face still works w/ any spray euuwww

[] 8:50 am: Got a cane handy?

[] 8:50 am: 4 ft hardwood staff.

[MtRider] 8:50 am: Not within reach....expanded to the rest of the room..... ÅNY thing can be a weapon

[] 8:51 am: Oops, would need to take 2 steps.

[MtRider] 8:51 am: AND if any of those kinds of weapons get taken from you, just pick up the next one

[MtRider] 8:51 am: As you are moving towards safety....

[] 8:52 am: Actually, the door can be used, as well.

[MtRider] 8:52 am: OR moving toward your firearms...

[] 8:52 am: Oh forgot an obvious one--fireextinguisher! Spray it at them or hit them with the can.

[HSmom] 8:52 am: See it always come back to guns! lol

[MtRider] 8:52 am: What about what one has in one's car.... did you talk about that?

[] 8:52 am: We touched on vehicles a little bit.

[HSmom] 8:53 am: Oh Vic! I've never thought of that! I have one in the kitchen and one in the van. :8

[] 8:53 am: Mostly it was in the realm of what one has on ones person.

[MtRider] 8:53 am: I carry a sawed off end of an old pitchfork handle.....hardwood, y'know

[MtRider] 8:54 am: cuz of feral dogs

[] 8:54 am: 'tire knocker' of osage orange.

[HSmom] 8:54 am: What is osage orange?

[MtRider] 8:54 am: My canes are handy but are shock-corded and end up being more like nun-chuks than bo.

[MtRider] 8:55 am: A VERY hard wood --- hedge apple is another name. Make fence posts from it.

[HSmom] 8:55 am: Shock corded? They fold up?

[MtRider] 8:55 am: Yesssss! Handy for other things but I nearly beaned myself swinging one....

[] 8:55 am: I carry a cane in my car with a lovely decorative metal handle of a dragon. I AM an old lady, after all... LOL

[HSmom] 8:55 am: Snow chains, I suppose.

[MtRider] 8:56 am: lol leah

[HSmom] 8:56 am: I keep them year round, in case of mud.

[MtRider] 8:56 am: Does your 'dragon' have nice pointy ears or edges?

[pauline] 8:56 am: i have a short piece of metal pipe in the car that i use to extend the jack handle that would work as a weapon as well

[] 8:56 am: It's a type of wood. Used in oldtime fence posts. Dense & rot resistant

[] 8:56 am: Scales and teeth. It was made for me...

[MtRider] 8:57 am: Presently I have a garden hoe, rake, weedwacker, spade...... in my car

[] 8:57 am: http://www.gpnc.org/osage.htm

[MtRider] 8:57 am: Swing Ms Dragon across someones face and gives them reason to pause.

[] 8:58 am: Of course, gardening doncha know MtRider

[] 8:59 am: My dragon works as a cane - I can't help it if some of the carving is a little... defined.

[] 9:00 am: My daughter, being younger and hardier always has an umbrella. She hates to get wet?

[HSmom] 9:00 am: Oh, I have a big umbrella in my van too...it has a really pointy tip.

[MtRider] 9:01 am: Also carry two all-purpose machetes.... I think rural folks carry more 'junk' in the car for fixing things on the spot.

[HSmom] 9:01 am: And my aluminum cane.

[] 9:01 am: Be careful with that, you could hurt someone...

[] 9:01 am: Hey ladies, I gotta do some monkey time now. I hope y'all found this chat interesting and informative. I apologise for my interruptionsm but you know, kids should come first...not mom on the computer, and I am sometimes bad about that!

[pauline] 9:01 am: well ladies i need to head out got a ton of errands to run and it is raining smile finally here so roads will be a bit slick so i want extra time to avoid those drivers that forget how to drive in the rain .

[] 9:01 am: Time is up, anyway.

[MtRider] 9:01 am: How 'bout swinging the battery jumper cables....iffen you can dig them out in a hurry...

[HSmom] 9:01 am: Vic, I'm very glad that you were able to do this today. Thank you so much! *clap*

[HSmom] 9:02 am: Be safe Pauline.

[] 9:02 am: Applause!!

[MtRider] 9:02 am: Hope kiddos are feeling better today Vic -- don't you catch anything! Bye

[pauline] 9:02 am: have a good day Vic, Leah, Hsmom, Mtrider

[] 9:02 am: The audience chats excitedly as they get up to leave the room...

[The Lounge]: has left at 9:03 am

[HSmom] 9:03 am: *snort* hang on while I save.

[] 9:03 am: Bye ladies, have a good one!

[MtRider] 9:03 am: bye Pauline

 

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"BUMP" --- Because the last archived chat was about non-shooting 'weapons' around the home. Yes, knives were allowed.

I was sitting here thinking I better put my ovenspray, Pinesol and dish soap away from my dollar store purchases yesterday, since they are still sitting on the floor by my computer desk.

Hmmm. oven spray. Nasty stuff. Would be easy to just leave a can by my front door or desk here. ( I have no dogs or children that could get into it and no children in the apartment building.....)....

oven spray would really hurt someones eyes and face..... hehehe. For Trespassers.....and Bad Guys and Dolls trying to break and enter..... (cold, evil, yes! ).

Am I too rotten too early in the morning?

 

But, truly, I did not see oven spray as an alternative to pepper spray in the home.

Well, truth be told I need it to clean my oven, but I can get more! :P

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