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Eating From Your Food Stores

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I don't advise taking chances with improper canning, but if people would take a hefty dose of activated charcoal at the first sign of food poisoning, they stand a much better chance of surviving it.

 

Botulism is rather slow onset and the symptoms are a result of the neurotoxins from the bacteria. Activated charcoal adsorbs these toxins and decreases or prevents the symptoms.

 

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/botulism/...ECTION=symptoms

Symptoms

By Mayo Clinic staff

 

Signs and symptoms of food-borne botulism typically begin between 12 and 36 hours after the toxin gets into your body. If infant botulism is related to food, such as honey, problems will generally begin within this time frame, too. However, the symptoms of wound botulism typically start about 10 days after you're infected by the bacteria.

 

Food-borne and wound botulism

Signs and symptoms of food-borne and wound botulism include:

 

* Difficulty swallowing or speaking

* Facial weakness on both sides of the face

* Blurred vision

* Drooping eyelids

* Trouble breathing

* Nausea, vomiting and abdominal cramps (only in food-borne botulism)

* Paralysis

 

Infant botulism

 

* Constipation (often the first sign)

* Floppy movements due to muscle weakness, and trouble controlling the head

* Weak cry

* Irritability

* Drooling

* Drooping eyelids

* Tiredness

* Difficulty sucking or feeding

* Paralysis

 

Certain signs and symptoms usually aren't present with botulism, including no elevation in blood pressure or heart rate, no confusion and no fever. However, fever is sometimes present with wound botulism.

 

When to see a doctor

Seek urgent medical care if you suspect that you have botulism. Early treatment increases your chances of survival. Seeking medical care promptly may also serve to alert public health authorities, who can keep other people from eating contaminated food.

BOtulism takes 3-5 days to manifest symtoms, by the time you know you have it its too late to take anything for it. :o

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Turtlemama,

Yes, it is safe if you follow the right procedures and processing times. As long as people don't try to take short cuts, etc. the food is safe, right out of the jar. You don't need to boil your food if you do it right. I have canned for 38 years now, so I know it is safe.

 

Botulism does not always come from dirt. The difference we are talking about with milk is that in a store carton it is not in an airtight or anerobic state. A sealed jar is. We can eat the green beans from the garden, right ? Many of us eat them raw while picking them. The difference again, is they are not in a sealed airtight environment that allows the toxins to grow. They can grow rapidly, too, in a sealed jar. This is why we say you need to reprocess within 24 hours of the intial canning if you need to reprocess any jars of food. After that, we can't insure all bacteria would be killed during the reprocessing time.

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BOtulism takes 3-5 days to manifest symtoms, by the time you know you have it its too late to take anything for it. :o

 

Hon, if that were so, there would be no point in going to the doctor.

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I've been thinking. (Gasp!) There are a few crises where you might be able to "stack the deck", e.g. pandemic or maybe even some economic things. Anyway, I found the blog to be a very useful read. And if it's what you are ready to try, it's a good exercise. Then if you really have to do it, you'll have a least a few more clues. :)

 

Now, off to buy activated charcoal.

Edited by nmchick

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Violet--I do thank you for caring enough to help us to do right when canning. I canned vegetables, fruits, and meats for 25 years. I always followed the directions in the canning books (my mom and MIL told me to). I started canning as a little girl with my grandma. I married young and, after my DH got back from Vietnam, he was a beginning teacher who didn't make squat. We had a garden. I froze what I could and canned whatever was in the book. I loved trying different things-some we loved and some we hated (fig preserves). Nothing felt better than a full pantry and freezers at the end of summer. :woohoo:

 

 

The only thing I canned that was not in the book but the recipe was given to me by my brother was picante sauce. We all used his recipe and loved it. Now, I thank God that no one got sick after reading about having the recipe tested. Since I am starting to can again, my sons want me to all can them some more. I am afraid to until I get it tested but don't know where to send the recipe to have it checked. I know you would where I could send it. Thank you for being there for all of us. Best wishes in your new job. BTW, don't you want to move to Texas? We would treat ya'll real well and could sure use the help in doing things properly. :bighug2:

Edited by AMarthaByHeart

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Marthabyheart,

Most likely I will have to tell you to freeze the picante sauce instead of being able to can it. However, if you want to provide me with the recipe I will look it over. It would be hard to have it tested. You would have to find an agriculture college that would be willing to test it, but it would cost $$. I don't know of any that currently provide that service.

If you do not want to give out the recipe for the public, you can send it to me with a PM.

Isn't there something similar in a safe book you can use ?

 

 

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Marthabyheart,

Most likely I will have to tell you to freeze the picante sauce instead of being able to can it. However, if you want to provide me with the recipe I will look it over. It would be hard to have it tested. You would have to find an agriculture college that would be willing to test it, but it would cost $$. I don't know of any that currently provide that service.

If you do not want to give out the recipe for the public, you can send it to me with a PM.

Isn't there something similar in a safe book you can use ?

Thanks Violet. I will check the books. If I don't find anything, I will send the recipe to you. If you think it would be better by a pm, I will do it that way.

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Someone mentioned the baby formula...

I checked, and the 3 pounds she has left on day #48 will make about 75 8 ounce bottles.

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Thanks Violet. I will check the books. If I don't find anything, I will send the recipe to you. If you think it would be better by a pm, I will do it that way.

 

 

WHAT - We all don't get to see it?

 

I understand if it turns out NOT to be safe no need to share with others that may try it anyway.

BUT-

if it is OK after being checked over can you post it so we all can see it?

P l e a s e .

:AmishMichaelstraw:

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I have checked them over and must say they need to be frozen, not canned.

Please, stick with your recipes from the Ball Blue book or the NCHFP at University of Georgia if you want to can them.

Sorry for the news...

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Thanks Violet--I checked the web site and they had two recipes that are similar. I will do those and not even tell my sons. It has been ten years since I canned so I bet they have forgotten what it even tasted like.

 

 

Sorry AH, on my recipes, but the web site Violet gave me is this.

 

www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_salsa.html

 

I am ready to get started again on this.

 

 

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Martha,

If you find them too tart, then add a bit of sugar to offset the tartness. I do find the bottled lemon juice to be nice to use. I have not tried bottled lime juice, but it is fine to use it, too.

I am glad you find something similar and will use those recipes instead. They are good tasting, I think. I have canned a couple of them.

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thanks for posting the blog, it is interesting to read. I noticed she posted a site lately that gives canning safety guidelines, I assumed it was the one that Violet sent her, though it sounds like she will continue to can certain things that I wouldn't.

 

Kudos to her for even attempting this with 10 children! It's a great blog to read over to see where my holes are in my preps.

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Woo, y'all, read Day 70 -- she starts out nice but ends it kinda snarky! LOL Like, "Thanks for sending me this link, but I know what I wanna do and I'm going to keep on doing it!"

 

At least Violet tried...

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Yes, I tried.

I know of some who have "canned" the cheese, too. They wound up throwing it in the trash.

I wish her luck, but I really don't understand people at all when they do things that have been tested by scientists in labs and found to be unsafe.

She really doesn't totally understand how botulism can grow or survive even pressure canning when fat is involved.

Oh well..... still concerns me because of her innocent children.

I wonder why people don't buy powdered milk, cheese, and butter. I have them stored in mylar bags with O2 absorbers.

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I agree, Violet...the kids are what really concern me, as well.

 

She keeps talking about "managing risk" and "acceptable risk" -- as far as I'm concerned, there IS no acceptable risk when it comes to ensuring the safetly of my kids. If I know something has the _potential_ of being unsafe, I'm not going to take a chance with their health or lives -- especially if it's something I truly can control, like not feeding them unsafe food.

 

I hope we don't read anything about family getting sick because she decided to "manage" the risk of botulism. :(

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Yea--I made it over 100 posts finally.

 

Well, curiousity got the best of me and I read the blog. Did I understand correctly that she is a register dietitian? If so, I would think that she would realize that knowledge is constantly changing. Also, I don't think I would be brave enough to eat food that had been canned 10 or 12 years like she did. It may have been alright, but I just don't think I would have chance it. One time at my mom's after she got older,(Before we had to move her) she opened a jar of canned fruit with mold on the top of it. She took the mold off and reheated the fruit. I did not ever remember her doing that before. My SIL 'accidently' dropped it. I know when we closed her house out that we found jars of stuff that were 20-30 years old. She couldn't reach it. She never discarded anything and my dad kept everything because he might need it to fix something. We threw away everything jars and all. We double bagged it all and discarded it. My SIL is a RN and even if anyone had wanted to keep any of it (we didn't), she wouldn't have let us.

Edited by AMarthaByHeart

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One of the things I found terribly ironic abou this blog is that she's a dietician/ nutritionist, or at least she claims to be on her blog. As such, she SHOULD KNOW BETTER, plain and simple.

 

This is why I shared it. I *so* wanted the Mrs S ladies to see it, kick it around and share their opinions. :)

 

If I haven't said so lately, you guys are great! :):wub:

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You can get botulism from home canned dairy. It isn't just the dirt. It is also in low acid foods. It grows in the absence of air, such as a sealed jar. The butter is not even "canned". Just heated and has the lid put on and sealed from the heat. No processing at all.

We don't have any safe way to can dairy at home, but the commercial industry does.

This information will help you understand botulism. Sure, it is rare, but if you can something improperly, the risk is still there. About a year ago we had some cases of botulism from improperly canned green beans. You will see that is it all low acid foods, not just dairy.

 

http://missourifamilies.org/features/foods...es/fdsfty60.htm

 

I think part of the problem is the way many of these articles are worded. Violet, the article you linked to say's this:

 

Clostridium botulinum is why pressure canning is the only safe method for preserving low-acid foods. Low-acid foods include meat, poultry and dairy products, and all vegetables except tomatoes. Acid in foods like tomatoes, fruit and pickles prevents botulinum spores from becoming toxic. (Acid is added to tomatoes in canning to assure safety.)

 

Then another article on the same site say's:

http://extension.missouri.edu/publications...b.aspx?P=gh1451

Whether you should process food in a pressure canner or boiling-water canner to control botulinum bacteria depends on the amount of acid in the food. The term “pH” is a measure of acidity. The lower the pH, the more acid the food.

 

Acid foods include pickles, most fruits and jams and jellies made from fruit. (In pickling, the acid level is increased by adding lemon juice, citric acid or vinegar.) Acid foods contain enough acidity either to stop the growth of botulinum bacteria or destroy the bacteria more rapidly when heated.

 

Low-acid foods don’t contain enough acid to prevent the growth of botulinum bacteria. Process these foods at temperatures of 240 degrees F to 250 degrees F. To reach these high temperatures, you must use a pressure canner operated at 10 to 15 pounds per square inch of pressure (PSI). The exact time depends on the kind of food being canned, the way it is packed into jars and the size of jars.

 

Low-acid foods include red meats, seafood, poultry, milk, all fresh vegetables and some tomatoes. When you mix low-acid and acid foods, assume that the mixture remains low-acid.

 

Although tomatoes used to be considered an acid food, some are now known to have pH values slightly above 4.6, which means they are low-acid. To safely can them as acid foods in a boiling-water canner, you must add lemon juice or citric acid.

 

I think many people would assume that dairy products are low acid and safe to pressure can, when articles like this on the extension services website include it with other low acid foods that ARE safe to can.

It would be very easy for a person to read that and think, that it implies dairy products can be pressure canned.

 

Then many books or online sources tell you to boil home canned food for 10 min after opening to kill any possible botulism. So I would think many newer (or long time) canners would put the two thoughts together and think it's safe.

Really if dairy is unsafe to can then the extension service articles shouldn't include dairy in the list with other low acid foods when talking about canning. Might help make it more clear to people. :)

 

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Kim, I do agree with what you said about them listing dairy. I should contact Elizabeth Andress at NCHFP about it.

It is basically this, if it isn't a recipe or method included in their book or website or in the current Ball blue book, it should not be canned. I do understand that people may not understand this.

This is why I do wish some of the information was more in depth and would include things such as this. I can try to keep teaching it, and I do find at times the lack of written materials is a problem.

Thank you for your prospective on this. I did appreciate it.

Maybe this is something else I should consider writing down and explaining, about fats/butter/oil/bacon, etc. in canning. I am also going to write one on changing a dial gauge canner over to a weighted gauge canner. I have people saying they would buy a copy if I would do it. Some of these things will not be found in any book or online, yet are needed.

I recently had a talk with a client. She said she did not want to change her dial to a weight because she could not can at all the different pressures. I pressed the issue more and found she thought she should can some things at 10 lb. , some 11 if if it said that, and some old things that said 15 lb. pressure. I had to convince her she only needed the ONE pressure for ALL things at her altitude. I had to explain the weight would be the correct pressure and would make it so easy for her. Never get a gauge tested again. She lives 5 hours away from here and no other closer place to get a dial gauge tested.

These are some of the things I deal with on a daily basis. Wish I was more than one person some days ! I just cannot keep up with the need for help in food preserving.

 

 

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...Maybe this is something else I should consider writing down and explaining, about fats/butter/oil/bacon, etc. in canning. I am also going to write one on changing a dial gauge canner over to a weighted gauge canner.

 

I know your very busy! But if/when you have time to write this up, please let me know! One of the things I do on our youtube channel and website is canning videos. I'm always getting people writing to me asking about canning milk, butter, fats, eggs, pasta's etc. I would LOVE to be able to direct them to a source that really explains what/why the dangers of these are.

 

I had a dial canner once. I used it twice and hated it. lol Went back to using a weighted canner. I find them much easier to use and regulate. Also here in Canada, at least our area there is nowhere to have a dial tested anyway.

 

Thank you for all the time and help you share with us. :hug3:

 

 

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