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Ahhh 8th sinner, I should have made myself more clear... I wanted to present these as ideas for someone to mold to their home. Originally, this was written about the time I was talking about ceiling spaces as storage as well as how to disguise your preps. All of which was to be in a real budget. I was trying to show ingenuity in design in common household things like the niche and the chair. I mean, whose expecting an escape shoot in a chair? In otherwords, just to get peoples ideas flowing. The *Per Vivere* site is literally a single man's work and innovation. I'm sure he didn't spend thousands making it. But I'm sorry I didn't make myself more clear.

Here's another plant still using the plastic bag idea: STILL CONSTRUCTION You can use stills in various areas of the world. They draw moisture from the ground and from plant material. You need certain materials to build a still, and you need time to let it collect the water. It takes about 24 hours to get 0.5 to 1 liter of water. Aboveground Still To make the aboveground still, you need a sunny slope on which to place the still, a clear plastic bag, green leafy vegetation, and a small rock. To make the still-- Fill the bag with air by turning the opening into the breeze or by "scooping" air into the bag. Fill the plastic bag half to three-fourths full of green leafy vegetation. Be sure to remove all hard sticks or sharp spines that might puncture the bag. CAUTION Do not use poisonous vegetation. It will provide poisonous liquid. Place a small rock or similar item in the bag. Close the bag and tie the mouth securely as close to the end of the bag as possible to keep the maximum amount of air space. If you have a piece of tubing, a small straw, or a hollow reed, insert one end in the mouth of the bag before you tie it securely. Then tie off or plug the tubing so that air will not escape. This tubing will allow you to drain out condensed water without untying the bag. Place the bag, mouth downhill, on a slope in full sunlight. Position the mouth of the bag slightly higher than the low point in the bag. Settle the bag in place so that the rock works itself into the low point in the bag. To get the condensed water from the still, loosen the tie around the bag's mouth and tip the bag so that the water collected around the rock will drain out. Then retie the mouth securely and reposition the still to allow further condensation. Change the vegetation in the bag after extracting most of the water from it. This will ensure maximum output of water. Belowground Still To make a belowground still, you need a digging tool, a container, a clear plastic sheet, a drinking tube, and a rock. Select a site where you believe the soil will contain moisture (such as a dry stream bed or a low spot where rainwater has collected). The soil at this site should be easy to dig, and sunlight must hit the site most of the day. To construct the still-- Dig a bowl-shaped hole about 1 meter across and 60 centimeters deep. Dig a sump in the center of the hole. The sump's depth and perimeter will depend on the size of the container that you have to place in it. The bottom of the sump should allow the container to stand upright. Anchor the tubing to the container's bottom by forming a loose overhand knot in the tubing. Place the container upright in the sump. Extend the unanchored end of the tubing up, over, and beyond the lip of the hole. Place the plastic sheet over the hole, covering its edges with soil to hold it in place. Place a rock in the center of the plastic sheet. Lower the plastic sheet into the hole until it is about 40 centimeters below ground level. It now forms an inverted cone with the rock at its apex. Make sure that the cone's apex is directly over your container. Also make sure the plastic cone does not touch the sides of the hole because the earth will absorb the condensed water. Put more soil on the edges of the plastic to hold it securely in place and to prevent the loss of moisture. Plug the tube when not in use so that the moisture will not evaporate. You can drink water without disturbing the still by using the tube as a straw. You may want to use plants in the hole as a moisture source. If so, dig out additional soil from the sides of the hole to form a slope on which to place the plants. Then proceed as above. If polluted water is your only moisture source, dig a small trough outside the hole about 25 centimeters from the still's lip. Dig the trough about 25 centimeters deep and 8 centimeters wide. Pour the polluted water in the trough. Be sure you do not spill any polluted water around the rim of the hole where the plastic sheet touches the soil. The trough holds the polluted water and the soil filters it as the still draws it. The water then condenses on the plastic and drains into the container. This process works extremely well when your only water source is salt water. You will need at least three stills to meet your individual daily water intake needs. WATER PURIFICATION Rainwater collected in clean containers or in plants is usually safe for drinking. However, purify water from lakes, ponds, swamps, springs, or streams, especially the water near human settlements or in the tropics. When possible, purify all water you got from vegetation or from the ground by using iodine or chlorine, or by boiling. Purify water by-- Using water purification tablets. (Follow the directions provided.) Placing 5 drops of 2 percent tincture of iodine in a canteen full of clear water. If the canteen is full of cloudy or cold water, use 10 drops. (Let the canteen of water stand for 30 minutes before drinking.) Boiling water for 1 minute at sea level, adding 1 minute for each additional 300 meters above sea level, or boil for 10 minutes no matter where you are. By drinking nonpotable water you may contract diseases or swallow organisms that can harm you. Examples of such diseases or organisms are-- Dysentery. Severe, prolonged diarrhea with bloody stools, fever, and weakness. Cholera and typhoid. You may be susceptible to these diseases regardless of inoculations. Flukes. Stagnant, polluted water--especially in tropical areas--often contains blood flukes. If you swallow flukes, they will bore into the bloodstream, live as parasites, and cause disease. Leeches. If you swallow a leech, it can hook onto the throat passage or inside the nose. It will suck blood, create a wound, and move to another area. Each bleeding wound may become infected.

BTW Go to the top post. Go to Hiddenpassageways.com Click on features then click on *Click to see Catalog* Very cool pics of ones they've already made. I think the niche with the gun compartment was interesting

Avoid the yellow dew? I've never heard of it before a few years ago...all the sudden it's everywhere. Thanks for the heads up on the pesticide flavor enhancements to dew water. Hopefully, I can get Friday free to become (insert dramatic music here) Clandestine Dew Woman.

I'm waiting for a day I don't work Moonstar, so I can keep an eye on the bags. I want to watch for the rowdy teens in my neighborhood, who might just rip it down for spite. Or the lawn guys who would be trying to be helpful.Though the article doesn't mention how long the condensation process takes, I'm betting on all day to get a trace amount. I'm even thinking of doing the swipe-the-dew-off-the-lawn emergency water harvesting the article mentioned. The one where you use a cloth and soak up as much dew as possible? Then I'd like to do a measurement with teaspoons or such. I realize the rest of the country is facing winter weather, but we're still getting dew on the grass in the wee hours of the morn. I just wonder what the association will think I'm doing crawling around with a washcloth on the lawn?

Collecting water Even if you don't find surface water you can sustain yourself in a wilderness survival situation by collecting water from the atmosphere, or from plants or ground stills. Rain and dew Rainwater is usually safe for drinking and only needs collecting. If you have a waterproof sheet available, stretch it over a wide area, preferably on a slope, and run the water off into clean containers. You can collect morning dew by soaking a cloth in long, wet grass. When the cloth is soaked wring it out directly into your mouth or a container. Repeat. Condensation Tree and plants roots draw moisture from the ground. Use that fact to collect water without digging. Tie a plastic bag over a growing branch with exposure to the sun. Being careful not to puncture the bag. Close the bag. Keep a corner hanging low to collect water. Evaporation from the leaves will produce condensation in the bag. This is an easy way to get pure drinkable water! If you have problem in finding water and you are lucky enough to have a 6 x 6-footsheet (2x2 m) of clear plastic you can create a solar still. Water purification In most parts of the world surface water is seldom pure. When finding water always purify suspect water before drinking to avoid parasitic infestation. However water collected from the atmosphere, or from plants or ground stills, has the enormous advantage of always being pure. More about how to find water in the wilderness A good tool in finding water is your map. Almost any water source of any size, will be marked on a geodesic map. Clean water is not only crucial for survival it's crucial for life on our planet. Take the opportunity to learn more about the water cycle and the processes and activities between ground water and surface water. Check this great site and find information on many aspects of water. It will also help you finding water on your next wilderness travel.Also! There's a good image of the condensation bag tied to a tree limb for easy water. Try not to laugh, if I get time this week...I'm going to casually hook one up on a tree out front and see how it does. I'll alert you when I'm going to try and take a picture. http://www.wilderness-survival-skills.com/findingwater.html

Ummm here's a homemade water filter, I remember someone else posted this a while ago but here it is again: Make Your Own Water Filter You can turn muddy water into clear water by putting it through a number of layers that filter out the impurities. this is similar to the first step that our tap water goes through at a treatment station. What You Need: 2-Liter plastic pop bottle & lid Straw Cotton Batting Gravel (large and small) Sand (large grain and fine) Coffee filter jar Muddy Water What To Do: Cut the bottom off the pop bottle. Poke a hole in the bottle's lid, just large enough to fit the straw. Put the straw through the hole. Turn the bottle upside down and rest it in the mouth of the jar. In the bottle, place a layer of cotton batting followed by layers of fine-grain sand, large-grain sand, small gravel and large gravel. Cut the coffee filter so it fits across the top of the bottle and place it on top of the gravel. Pour muddy water into the open end of the bottle and let the water seep down through the filter layers. It is strongly recomended that you still add 4-8 drops of chlorine to every gallon of water filtered just to make sure the water is purified.

Did you know: You can fireproof your live christmas tree? Almost every recipe you'll find on the net uses good old Borax. Here's one recipe, there's a bunch out there http://www.barnestreefarm.net/fireproof_christmas_tree.html

Okay, I'm back about water again. Quite a while ago HSMom mentioned a natural spring near her homestead. When I researched it for Florida, I got the major spring listings (a huge amount for here)

These are cool ideas 8th Sinner! I was gone a while and missed these cool replies! I actually have a space I'm thinking of doing this with. If I get brave and do it, I'll let you guys know. It must be the little girl in me that finds these things fascinating! I love all the hidey-hole, secret rooms, disguised safes kinda thing. A friend spoke about making a hidden stash by making a fake ceiling in the closet.It wouldn't have to be very large as opposed to say-a drop ceiling. Most people tap the floor or walls for hidden spaces. I thought that was interesting idea.

Just some different solar packs, batteries etc. for small for ipods and things to larger for laptops and beyond. Just to get started. One of my favorites is the rollup solar panel. This is just to get your mind going. http://www.oreillynet.com/etel/blog/2006/0...e_solar_ph.html http://www.batterystuff.com/solar-chargers/ http://www.powerportstore.com/Solar%20rech...ng%20-%20ER.htm http://www.innergypower.com/solarProd.html http://www.motherearthnews.com/top_article...y/simpler_solar

Since I can't have a basement in my area, I didn't think of that! Very Kewl idea for a basement. Hmmmmm, or a storage room? Covered garage? Barn? Rox!!! Magpie is after my ovaltine again!!! LOL Hmmmmmmmmmm REALLY secret ovaltine stash area. (Non-shiny)

I thought this was a clever way for someone to hide a space or room. He goes into a decent description of how to hinge it and the old move a book and the door opens trick. http://pervivere.blogspot.com/2005/09/holl...nit-batman.html This second one is just for ideas (I doubt some of us could afford them.). But try the videos! "specially the staircase one! http://www.hiddenpassageway.com/

Here are some more shelving/storage ideas. I like the "corner" shelves but the ceiling drawers are really cool. I wonder how hard it would be to camoflage them? http://www.rd.com/content/openContent.do?contentId=18096

Kewl Granny! Break out the honeydo list!!! One of these ceiling units limits it to 160 pounds...hmmm. The wooden one at the first site. What could I put up with 160 pounds? All paper products comes to mind. What do you think? Hmmmmmmmm, off the ground, harder to reach, harder for vermin....I know, I could hide my stash of chocolate! Or, how many containers of ovaltine is that?

One of the problems with our urban living is lack of storage. I thought this was pretty cool, though they only showed a garage. http://www.rd.com/content/openContent.do?contentId=17442 These rafter styles were cool also: http://www.stacksandstacks.com/html/product358_0.htm I can't find the image of the one I'd like to do over my laundry area. I'm thinking open height would be good for both ventilation around buckets and keeping critters at bay? Just an idea

Wow! That looked like my store down the road. I went around and people watched too. Did you hear about the fistfights in the gasoline lines? This time at least, they designated in-one-ways with police to control rowdiness at some spots. The big thing I've heard (and was in the paper) were the people with containers of gas who were keeping them for the whole hurricane season not realizing: A. You need to buy and administer a stabilizer or the gas goes bad in I think it's a month. B. You need to keep it outside in a covered shed. (Those indoor explosions are so annoying). but, it is too true, you've got to prep. It was so soul satisfying to know that basically, I had decent hurricane supplies (and mostly it was all yours from out here fault...LOL). Prep Cookie prep! Humor for you: Years ago, I was all smug when a hurricane warning came, I was ready. I lived across the street from a major Publix store (sorta like Vons/safeway) and was gleefully watching the crowds from my balcony. Then the phone rang. It was Rosa, a family member who had the 3 year old and the baby. She plainitvely asked me to please go buy her supplies as her husband was at work and she didn't have the car. ARGH!! Heaven got me for being so smug. Guess who was one of those harried frazzled women you see in the news shopping last minute in endless lines? Then driving like a maniac on 95 pre-storm? Very poignant photos Darlene. Since we both live hurricane warnings, it's easy to forget how chilling the stripped bare shelves are.The pictures brought it home. Thanks,

here is standard bleach amounts for purification: http://www.local10.com/hurricanes/1040678/detail.html I don't know if the dry clorine mentioned here is what your looking for Granny. This includes boiling procedures, iodine and other purifications. Hope this helps: http://standeyo.com/News_Files/LTAH_Water_Pure2.html Okay, I seriously need to cut down on sugar...LOL

We're on a roll...LOL Ohhnoooooooo you've created a monster. Rain devices for sale for my gardeners-some I think you could figure out how to make? Plus rain gardens that control runoff in urban settings: http://www.gardeners.com/Watering/Default/...cat?SC=xnet8019 http://www.raingardennetwork.com/ Rain Harvesting using other country's techniques: http://www.tn.gov.in/dtp/rainwater.htm http://akash-ganga-rwh.com/RWH/WaterHarvesting.html

*snark!* LMAO!!! It was a drive-by guilting! Here's one, desert water. It's condensation and dew traps. http://www.death-valley.us/article245.html Basic hommade filtration devices including one to combat radiation in the water: http://www.baproducts.com/rainwatr.htm http://www.parowanprophet.com/Nuclear_War_...nstructions.htm Pond filters in case of need for catfishing in the back yard? cookie

A plastic sheet *vent* off the roof to collectors (trashbags, buckets etc.). Rainbarrow. There's a digging trick which uses saran wrap and a stone to gather condensation. Can be used in a garden. I have a years worth of water filters for a pitcher. I have plans for sand/gravel/charcoal filters. I have pellet water purifiers which can be bought in any camping area. I've even bought them in walmart. I have a book that details certain plants that tell you at what depth water can be found. your not going to go make me find these websites again are you? LOL I have bleach to do the teaspoon cleaning.

http://solarcooking.org/plans.htm http://solarcooking.org/default.htm Sorry I piped up Schoolmarm, Check this out. I found some plans on my own. These are pretty good. Most very low tech. Sheet metal and such. I wonder if a solar blanket could be used to make one. (Remember the old "NASA" space blankets?). Tell me what you think, please

Oye Chica! Do you have any good plans for a low tech solar oven? You know, somewhere in that scary-level of prep info of yours?

Psssssssst mother... Seriously though, I'm thinking of putting a false bookcase over a door to a small space I have. If you've heard how a lightweight false front is done let me know.The door is average sized run of the mill home depot kind.I'm going to knick knack the shelf so would be thieve's eyes would slide right over it. dopey idea or good?

These are great! Thanks so much! Watch out for the lawyers from bisquick though!