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Pepper sprays and the wild chicas thinking of buying some.

Probably something like that would be good for living inner city as I do.

Are we allowed to mention any brands or favorite websites for comparison shopping?

Do you carry one? Are the keychain kind viable or do they get in the way?

My kultzy self has this hilarious image of me, fumbling for change for the turnpike and



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Cookie, I carry pepper spray. I used to work at night. One night I decided to do an "annual" test of my pepper spray. I waited until the air was completely still and sprayed, only to be hit with a gust of a breeze right in the face. The test was quite successful, my pepper spray worked j-u-s-t f-i-n-e!

I still have pepper spray, but I also carry a pair of pliers in my car.....you know the kind that electricians use that kind of spring open??? (no fumbling to open them before using)

It's a handy little tool that is legal to own and carry but could do significant damage to an attacker.



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Goose- liver!

Om gosh on the story, I can only imagine the coughing fit but small satisfaction knowing (ack! Cough! ack ack!) that the product worked.

I think I'm familiar with the tool your talking about...but I'm slightly clueless as to ummmmmmm...well..usage? The bad aprt of my mind thinks gripping. (you may say Bad cookie at any time). LOL.

I know a school coach that carries various metal bats just in his back seat and accidently under an old jacket.

I know there are laws against certain blunt objects in a vehicle (Though I may develop a batting appreciation and average for home)

such as certain batons and sawn wooden things (though why a metal tire iron is okay but not a shortened baton, I'm not sure).

I hope no one worries I'm going to become Cookie-on-a-rampage. Just getting info..

Thanks alot,



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Cookie said: "bad part of my mind thinks gripping. (you may say Bad cookie at any time). LOL."

Nope, Good Cookie, gooooood Cookie! LOL

That's exactly it, grab on anywhere with those pliers and squeeze and most bad guys will start trying to get away from YOU!

You can also whack 'em on the noggin and inflict a significant amount of pain as well. (ie if they are leaning or reaching into your car)

Of course, it all depends on how bad they want you and how determined they are, but if someone really really wants to do you harm you that's another story entirely.

Most likely someone wants to take your belongings or they're sicko's who enjoy inflicting pain & fear. They are looking for opportunities and won't put up with a whole lot of pain & mayhem to get what they want. IMO Create significant pain & mayhem for them and they will look for easier prey.



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Hola Goose-Liver

(do I ever get the story on that Nickname?)

HmmmMMMMmmmMMMmmmm, That is actually a fascianting idea. In most of FLA. as long as it's not a *weapon* apparently you can be carrying it and using it for defense.

A compadre of mine had a case of spray paints in her car to use to create a backdrop for a school show (Ironically for the song"I'm a survivor"...LOL).

She was accosted by a begger on the street that then turned TOO agressive. As she plopped into her car seat he blocked the door open and said something threatening. She whipped her hand back and basically MAGENTA'd him. ( I lost it when I heard that)

He howled and fled and get this...tried later to report her to the police ( he was a known unhinged character though so no charges were filed). A megenta assault.

All 5.2 of her as SUCH a brute huh?

The point of my story is I guess anything can be used for defense. I just think I'll take you up on the *car tool* and pepper spray.




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Sorry Cookie, I answered the "Name Question" over in the Gym.....but here it is again! grin.gif

Welll, it's kind of a long story.......

When my sister, Two Dogs, and I were little girls she used to call me Pat-Tay, instead of my name which is Patty. Eventually, it became patay as in goose liver pate' and she eventually shortened it to Goose Liver.......so, in retaliation, I call her Two Dogs and the following joke tells why.

Once upon a time, there was this young Indian boy who asked his father how he came to be named. His father said, well, when your sister was born I stepped outside the teepee and saw a doe running through the village. And so, your sister became known as Running Doe. When your brother was born, again I stepped outside the teepee and saw an eagle soaring high overhead. And so, your brother became known as Soaring Eagle.

Why do you ask, Two Dogs Mating?

......so, if you ever meet my sister, call her Two Dogs!



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Has anyone considered the self defense courses for women?

Years ago on "Designing Women," Mary Jo was mugged. The rest of that episode concerned her dealing with the assault and taking a course called Model Mugging.

At the time we lived just outside Columbia MO (slightly under 100,000 population when all colleges are in session). A young woman who was house sitting with her husband at the south end of the road where we lived disappeared while on her morning walk.


Shortly after we moved to the Kansas City area and when I became aware of a Model Mugging class being offered near my home, I took it. It was developed after a successful female karate student was raped. She apologized to her instructor because she thought she had failed. He realized that karate was more choreography than self defense and that women being built differently, would have to defend themselves differently.

It was amazing watching the women in my class blossom. I was the second to the oldest at 40 and the youngest was about to start her first year at the University of Kansas. Several members of the class had endured some sort of abuse or another so there were serious emotional issues to deal with too. The last half hour or so of each class was spent sitting on the floor with our male (if you remember that episode of DW, the guys were fully padded so the women could defend themselves full bore--we sure did in our class!) and female instructors talking about "things" and usually crying some. The tissue box was passed around a lot.

Although it is over a decade since I took that class, I can watch our "graduation" tape and every muscle twitches in what the instructors called muscle memory of the things we learned in class. I wouldn't take anything in the world for what I learned in that class, not just the active techniques but the body language, verbal responses, deceptions to make the assailant THINK you've given up and confidence in my ability. Don't get me wrong! I'm very aware of my surroundings and I don't ask for trouble but I can highly recommend that program.

Oh, and the young woman who disappeared--she was assaulted and murdered. The killer dumped her body, left town and returned a year or so later, took half her remains to another location and left half at the murder sight thinking it would complicate identification. He was caught, tried and convicted. I don't remember if he was given the death penalty or life in prison.


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MOGal, I've been considering self defense but haven't looked into it yet.

I was followed out of a shopping mall late one night and the only way I escaped was by outsmarting him. I've been very careful ever since.



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Hello, I just found my way back to board, was around the old board since 99 and got lost in one of the moves, aka theant00.

I had just found out about a class the NRA offers called Refuse To Be A Victim. They are all over the country. Check it out at


but the site has lots of info for safty even it you don't attend class. They have a corporate program and I am checking into it to offer my employees and families. We are 2 hrs from Baton Rouge, La where there is a serial killer, three shootings and hostage taken at Walmart's in the 20 miles radius over the last month, 2 car jackings with kidnap attempts at Sam's Warehouse Club in last month. So I think it is a wise thing to get some training.

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Mogal, Goose... your stories are unnerving,

I worry over being overweight, out of shape etc. to take those classes. I'm embarrassed to tell you that. Hence, why I was perusing pepper sprays and stun guns. You've given me much food for thought.

One of my friends, a firefighter blithly said,"Yeah sure, the stun Gun seems nice...if you remember to use it in time.."

He wasn't being me, only trying to make me aware. The problem with any firearms is I cannot take them onto a campus and I volunteer with kids on the side. Hmmm but please keep voicing ideas. More food for thought.


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I was working at the mall and I got off work 1/2 hour after the mall closed. Usually the parking lot was pretty busy with other folks getting off work and there was a bus stop right outside the main entrance.

That night just inside the mall a man approached me and asked if there were any restaurants left open in the mall. I never stopped walking, but did tell him no, the nearest place was Wendy's across from the mall.

When I left the mall the parking lot was deserted and apparently the bus had arrived early, because there was no one waiting at the bus stop.

After I got about 1/3 of the way to my car I heard someone whistling. I turned and looked and it was the man from the mall. I hadn't heard a thing because he was wearing sports shoes with his "dress" pants.

I let him know I knew he was there. I acted nervous (not hard), I got my keys out and ready, and I made it obvious which car I was headed for......except my car was much closer than the one I stayed focused on. He just kept cheerfully strolling along, whistling, but he was also clearly following me.

When I got to my car I never slowed down, I made a quick turn, jumped in and elbowed the lock down. As I started the car I turned and looked and he was pounding his fists on the trunk of a car, he then turned and went back inside the mall.

I thought I was cautious before this happened. Now if I left a mall alone at night and there was no one around, I would go right back inside the mall and get a security person to escort me to my car. Actually, I don't go to malls much anymore, period.

By the time I realized my stalker was there it was too late, we were well out into the parking lot and he would have had me before I got back inside.



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Cookie Jar, I'm overweight, arthritic and I was 41 when I took that Model Mugging class (53 now). I may be a little stronger than most women because I haul hay in season and move 50# feed sacks regularly, cut and split firewood with my husband, etc. The sad thing is that our physical condition might just make us look like an easier target for a predator. The Model Mugging class is so physical that the first 2 weeks I was sore. If you didn't see the Designing Women episode I referred to, let me explain about the class. You have 2 instructors, at least in the beginning, a woman who is your guide and a man who is dressed in 40# of protective gear so that he can withstand having women respond to HIS attacks full throttle. He is also padded so that the student, in resisting, can hit, kick, bite without injuring herself. We worked on a padded floor as you would use in an exercise or high school gym class. That's not to say I didn't end up with a couple of bruises because THE ASSAILANT ATTACKS YOU AS IN A REAL SITUATION! I got thrown down, knocked down and jumped upon. The very worst is the male instructor uses the same sort of language that a real attacker would use so that you can hear such words, deal with them and not be traumatized into submission by them. We worked with various scenarios some like Goose Liver described, some with a home intruder, you name it. Towards the end, we had two men in their gear and they would attack us in sequence as a group might do. Oh, gee! As I have been writing about the class, I have begun to get goose flesh and some of my muscles are twitching in "muscle memory" of the training I had so you know it is still with me.

Okay, enough said. It isn't an inexpensive course. I think I paid $400 for a 5 week, 3 hrs/night class but what is your safety, your life worth? You can get a decent handgun for that price but it can be taken from you, IF you happen to have it on your person when you need it. As I mentioned earlier, my training is still with me--ready at a moment's notice. I wish every woman in Baton Rouge, every woman who runs into a Ted Bundy, every little Klas, Runion, Smart and the little gal kidnapped, raped and murdered in St. Louis week before last who didn't make as many headlines and news broadcasts could take such a course. I get really emotional about this issue so forgive my being long in the post.

Do it for yourself. Do it for your loved ones. I PROMISE I'm getting off my soap box now.

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No Mogal, Do get down..LOL.

I'm intrigued and you know I'm looking for ideas becuase, let's face it, Miami doesn't exactly have the best reputation for security. smile.gif

I took Karate eons ago and self-defense in the service but there fuzzy remembrances. I do know that defense is one-part how you present yourself. defenseless or prepared.

Thanks for the info on the classes!




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Just a few quick things...

Be sure that if you get pepper spray, that you're NOT ALLERGIC to it. I couldn't carry that because it would kill me faster than an attacker could. But there are other things to carry instead. Check at your sporting goods stores.

Another thing...when I was 5, I was raped two weekends in a row by a family "friend" and I thought I was dying because of the blood. I never told anyone until I was 19. That is an awful, awful thing to live with and really messes up your relationship life. If you know of anyone that you suspect may have been abused, please try to get them help and make sure they're ok and if they're not, they'll get the help they need. Today's society is very open and these things can be talked about with children. That was not the case when I was growing up. So please, just keep your eyes and ears open. It may not be you, but it could be the little girl in the next pew at church.

The last thing is...at the University of Michigan, the first thing they teach the students when they get to campus is to carry a whistle on their keychain. BLOW LIKE HELL! The next thing is to scream! Make noise! Draw attention to yourself! And the third thing is to lace your keys between your fingers and carry them pointed OUT. They can work wonders on someone's eyes or nose very quickly.

Any more tips anyone can come up with? Quickies?


Pray for Peace


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My Lord God in Heaven....LogcabinMama......Oh what you've been through!!!!!My o MY o MY!

I can't stop crying for that little 5 yr old girl.........I'm so very sorry!

My heart breaks for you!

If only you could feel the Love i send to you.....you the Woman...you the little girl.


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I'm with DebbieLee,

my heart broke at the thought of that much suffering. Thank you for sharing your pain and turning it into a positive lesson for the rest of us. I actually unconciously walk with my keys "spiked" as it's called when I'm going through a parking garage or the lot at a mall. I'm also almost 5.10 of solid woman and acan adopt a very no-nonsense look as opposed to my usual sunny nature.

I know I'm not allergic to the peppers and maybe the *keyring* style would work best for moi?



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Logcabinmama, you must subscribe to my theory-that which doesn't kill me, only serves to make me stronger.

Attitude means so much--walk with a purpose, Keys are a wonderful weapon, spread between the fingers, like spiked brass knuckles, as would be a small flashlight on the key ring. Carry a spare set of keys in your pocket always. I was demonstrating spinning at a state fair sheep show and overheard a woman telling of being mugged and her purse stolen. Her car was locked and she couldn't even get inside to use her bag phone (I would have broken a side window and let the insurance hang but I have a different mindset, I guess). She was terrified the attacker would realize she could identify him and return to kill her. Anyway, she said she finally remembered having her husband's car keys in her pocket because she was going to take them to him at work. She unlocked the car and drove immediately to the nearest police station to report the crime. She didn't say if the purse were recovered but she was emphatic in stating that she never went any where without a spare car key on her person. I carry mine all the time even at home since I have keys to our outbuildings on that ring. Never have identification on your key ring and when you have car work done, give only your car key to the repairman.

Think in terms of an attacker's vulnerable areas--eyes, nose, solar plexus, groin, knees, instep--and don't think only in terms of using a fist. We just don't have the upper body strength or the "reach" to adequately fight off an attacker. Use your fingernails in his eyes, your elbows or knees in the solar plexus or groin (one of the my model mugging instructors suggested hitting him so hard "there" that his great great grandsons could feel it!), kicks to the knees, either from the side or front can break the joint or so completely disable him he's going to need surgery. When I took that Model Mugging class, there was a documented case of a woman, a MM graduate herself, in Las Vegas who was attacked while wearing high heel shoes. She stomped the attacker's instep, impaled his foot with the heel and it stuck in the hot soft asphalt of the parking area. The story goes that he was still there, still pinned to the pavement, when the police arrived.

And, yes, teach little girls AND boys it's okay to fight, especially to defend themselves. Teach them they don't have to submit to anything an adult tells them to do, especially if it doesn't feel "right." This is one thing we absolutely must stop. Children and women never should be considered prey of any sort.

You are all going to think I'm the meanest, most aggressive little whatever on two feet. Not quite. I went to a gun show with my husband and it was crowded. I felt a pair of hands on my shoulders somewhat directing me aside. At first I thought it was my husband as he sometimes does this but when I turned it was a total stranger. I came very close to making a major scene. How dare he? Would he have put his hands on a MAN to gain passage down the aisle!? I doubt it. Did he think my ears or brain didn't work adequately to understand the words, "EXCUSE ME PLEASE?" Did his voice not work? Oh, I was sorely ticked off (I'd like to use another word but you get my drift) and still trembling with absolute fury at this clown when my husband caught up with me and asked why there was a storm cloud over my head. I promise you, if that idiot had touched ANYTHING but my shoulders, he'd have regretted it.

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There is a new form of Pepper Spray. It comes in foam form.The foam comes out like silly string and shoots up to a distance of 30 feet. It is wind resistant, so you don't have to worry which way the wind is blowing.

Just taking time to think of this can be crucial. Once the foam contacts the skin it sticks like glue. By rubbing with their hands all it does is goes deeper into the pores and smears all over. Just rinsing off with water will not take it off. Most criminals have to be taken to the Hospital to be cleaned. It is quite effective and comes in all shapes and size. I've seen one in a Pen form. Sometimes just the right defense weapon can mean life or death.

But the best defense is always be aware

and ready for the worst. Then pray for the best.

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