Nearly 5 times actual deaths???

[bidy]

Something that has bothered me for months is that I keep reading about new deaths from bird flu, but the reported number of deaths stays always at 167.

 

This is one person's post at another flu site about that, which he says makes the numbers of bird flu deaths much higher:

 

.......................

 

Posted: Yesterday at 12:36am

 

In so far as I do not want to be accused of RUMOR mongering, I will give you a qualified answer. I have been told, by professionals in the know, that the number today is somewhere at 700+ - qualified by saying that the discrepancy between the published 167 deaths and 700+ represent the unreported deaths in China and "other" Asian nations - collocated since 1997 and the recent past - and unknown but guesstimated AFRICAN and Indian deaths - unreported.

 

Also, those 600+ deaths from H5N1, or whatever the number is, is further substantiated (at least in part) by Dr Gratton Woodson, MD (and other medical and science professionals) - as the existance of those numbers are rumored to be material in why he has stated repeatedly on the record, that it is his opinion we are in stage 4 of WHO's Influenza Pandemic Phase System (de facto - read: because of, at least in part - these numbers). And that we have been there (Stage 4) since at least summer of 2005 - according to him. Although I personally doubt he needs them for support of his analytical reasoning that we are today in Stage 4.

 

For your consideration, 700+ deaths is really not that mind boggling of a number, when you consider it has been 9 years since death 1 - and you further consider the population in China specifically and Asia generally - of both Humans and poultry and swine - and cats, etc, etc.. - - - and China's predisposition for "fudging" numbers and potentially damaging 'official' information!

 

JUST TO BE CLEAR - I cannot attest to the validity of the above, just that it was given to me in good faith by trustworthy, conservative men and women of science and government.

 

Lazaras

 

http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15668

 

.........................

 

It kind of confirms my suspicions, because I keep seeing stuff at RSOE that goes back to deaths only NOW suspected to be bird flu:

 

DESCRIPTION

UN OCHA: Health authorities in Cote d'Ivoire are investigating an acute illness in a northern village that claimed the lives of 31 people and sickened at least 73 others. People began to fall ill in the village of Diobala in the third week of December with symptoms including headache, high fever, neck and chest pain, and respiratory problems, according to a report by the Ministry of Health and Public Hygiene obtained by IRIN. The illness progressed rapidly over the course of three to five days and the first death was reported on 18 December, the report said. Villagers delayed reporting the illnesses to health authorities until 5 February. By then, 31 people had died among the 104 who had fallen ill, the report said. Victims in the village of 1,500 included men and women, young and old. "Almost every family was touched" in the village, an official with the Seguela health department told IRIN. Seguela, 44km away, is the largest town near Diobala. Seguela is 450km north of the main city, Abidjan. Local health authorities reported the deaths to officials in Abidjan and investigators went to Diobala. The team included specialists from the Pasteur Institute and the Ministry of Health and Public Hygiene.

 

They discovered that beginning in October animals in the village had begun falling ill. The report said 90 percent of the village's poultry, as well as about 500 goats and sheep, had died. Villagers consumed sick animals, but it was not immediately clear if this was how humans contracted the illness. Health authorities said patients treated with antibiotics responded well. "They did an investigation and took blood samples and nasal swabs of the people, the poultry, the goats and the sheep," the Seguela health official said. Water samples were also taken. "Surveillance is continuing to see if other cases come up," he said. The last cases of human illness were reported on 14 February. There have been no reports of illness in neighbouring villages. People in the area have been told to quickly report any illnesses to local health authorities. Cote d'Ivoire has been divided between a rebel-held north and government-run south since a brief civil war in 2002. As a result, humanitarian agencies say health and sanitary conditions in the north have deteriorated.

 

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/woalert_read....at=dis〈=eng

 

 

So what do you guys think? Is it higher? By how much?

 

 

 

[Darlene]

Thanks for sharing this.

 

All information hasta be looked at...the puzzle pieces are varied and many.

[BerkshireGrl]

Yeah, I would not be surprised if this is true. That 167 number has been bugging me for a while. It must be higher.It's been sitting there for far too long.

 

BTW, what forum did this come from, if I may ask?

[Jewlzm]

I would just about bet that it is true.. even if the numbers are wrong it still has to be more than 167. I guess the governments of the world dont want us all to panic and do something smart like.. PREP NOW while we can.

[cookiejar]

Jewlzm,

 

are you thinking again? (shakes head) Am I gonna have to report you?

 

It's got to be more than 167-if nothing then from that map of bird flu by MSNBC showing the march of progression. (BTW did you note it's almost into the bering straits across from Alaska?).

 

 

[KimMC]

I agree, I belive the numbers are much higher also. But I was wondering if the reported 167 deaths are on the ones they have admited to testing for. Example if you had 20 people sick and die in one area but only one was tested or said to be tested then it would count as ONE confermid (sp?) death not 20 right?

[bidy]

I always make sure my posts have a link, so look at the bottom of the info.

 

I figure if things can't be linked back, they aren't necessarily good info.

[BerkshireGrl]

Originally Posted By: bidy

I always make sure my posts have a link, so look at the bottom of the info.

I figure if things can't be linked back, they aren't necessarily good info.

Woops, sorry Bidy, I have been half brain dead all day!

[Jewlzm]

Originally Posted By: cookiejar

Jewlzm,

are you thinking again? (shakes head) Am I gonna have to report you?

I do try not to but honest, it is really hard.

I know we would never catch YOU thinking my dear cookie. That would be traumatic *snicker*

[Jewlzm]

But on the more serious side. I was not aware that it is almost into the bering straits. Where is that map thing when you need it?

[mrsroyer]

Originally Posted By: jewlzm

But on the more serious side. I was not aware that it is almost into the bering straits. Where is that map thing when you need it?

I was just wondering about a "map thing" myself....gonna go google!

[dogmom4]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12375868

Stacy

[cookiejar]

I see, what it is, the country of Russia has bird flu but not direct into the bering strait.Sorry, I misunderstood the map. Still, it's pretty scary.

 

So, I went and mapped more:

When the map comes up touch the words flight patterns and outbreaks, etc. to work the map.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/indepth_covera.../map_flash.html

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4531500.stm

 

http://www.pandemicflu.gov/

 

This is the big list of pandemic maps:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/avian_influenza.html

 

 

 

[zzelle]

so very true

[zinger]

Very interesting!

[Vic303]

On the flip side, we also do not know the actual number of humans who contracted h5n1, got a little sick, and recovered, never having gone to the doctor. Remember too that most of the deaths occur in the 3rd world countries, where health care is limited, and not as in depth especially in the hinterlands. So when someone falls ill, they can't afford to take 3 days off to hike to the doctor 3 villages away, and 3 days hike back, so they only get taken to the doc after they are on deaths door.

[Cat]

Also, there are deaths occurring that no one bothers to test to even *know* if it's Bird Flu. Which country wants to terrify their public "more than necessary"?

 

China has been *very* secretive, though there are rumors, and blogs from China that have information posted, then suddenly disappear.

 

 

[Jewlzm]

I would like to think that we dont know about the ones who get it and then get better before ever getting to see a doctor. I guess thats my frame of mind to try and think positive. The China thing is kind of weird though.

[Mouse Kitty]

This number has bothered me for a while as well. I was reading on www.pandemicflu.gov, linked to one of the sidebars under Avian Flu Watch that linked to the WHO.

 

There is a table listing month and year totals for the last few years - that isn't interesting, because it pretty much totals what is being reported.

 

What IS interesting (to me) is the little tiny writing under the table: "WHO reports only laboratory-confirmed cases."

 

In other words, if it isn't cofirmed in a WHO lab, it isn't considered official? They're not clear on that, but I suspect that is what is happening. With some countries refusing to share samples, perhaps this is imapcting this as well as antiviral research?

 

If anyone has any insight or thoughts on this, I'd love to hear it!

 

Here is the page with the table and the small writing in question:

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influ...1/en/index.html

[Cat]

As I understand it, it could be *any* lab, but they won't "count" any cases of Avian/Bird flu as "official" unless it's PROVEN to THEM.

 

You could have an entire village wiped out by Bird flu in days, but it won't count unless *somebody* bothers to send samples to a lab... and then, only those samples count.

 

Now that particular scenario hasn't happened that anyone knows, but it's an example of how WHO operates. And while I can understand the need for some sort of standard, it's a very easy way to "fudge" on the numbers without criticism.

 

 

 

[Mouse Kitty]

That's kind of what I was thinking, Cat.

 

To me, if you can pick and choose which data you're going to include (in this case, lab results), then it is not reliable data.

 

In essence, we have absolutely no reliable way of knowing what the true toll is. Easy to keep the sheeple calm and unaware of that big truck marked *slaughterhouse* backing up the farm driveway..........

Eeeeeekkk!