Jump to content
MrsSurvival Discussion Forums

Red Flags for a Looming Crisis - PART 2


Recommended Posts

I just wanted to add that a 6 foot high fence might not be high enough. I knew someone that used to have a pit bull and he could scale their 6 ft wooden fence in a blink of an eye.

 

JMO, but why anyone would need or have 10 of them is beyond me. It sounds like he is up to no good. I think the SSS plan is a good one as well.

 

Lots of prayers that you can get things resolved so that everyone is safe.

Link to post
  • Replies 251
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Originally Posted By: Cowgirl
There's a longstanding rule in the country with respect to dogs, Kelly. It is the SSS rule: Shoot, Shovel, and Shut Up. If the dogs come onto your property, shoot them, bury them, and keep your lip zipped about it (to prevent problems).


Well, I was a recipient to this much touted, long standing, unspoken rule.

I lost a dog that never bothered anyone's stuff, other than she did her rounds on the mountain. Ok, I shoulda kept her on the property but long story short, I couldn't or didn't, depending on how you look at it.

The devestation of someone (I had to stop and think of a word that was nice enough to type) thinking they had a license to shoot my dog is something I'll never forget.

I'm not really gonna get into this, it's too emotionally complicated but y'alls "rules" suck and if I had seen it go down then my dog would have had the comfort of...we'll let it go at that.

I will say however, that ya'll take this chit way too lightly and that really ticks me off.
Link to post

Just popping in again......

 

I pre-ordered 20 pounds of boneless, skinless chicken breasts for a dinner tomorrow night from a very nice locally owned store in town. Went to pick them up and the butcher was very apologetic. He said his last three orders had been shorted. There was no chicken of this type in the store!

 

I said I'd make do but wanted to know if the chickens were on strike. He got really serious and said that from what he had heard - chicken was getting ready to go sky high and the bigger stores were getting the orders while their orders were shorted.

 

He said that commercial chicken feed was going up and so chicken would be going up very soon. He went on to talk about how he didn't know how people were going to make it and said that if I wanted some advice - I'd better start stocking up. I agreed with him - bought a ham instead - and kept my thoughts to myself.

Link to post

I'm really sorry, Darlene. frown I totally agree that a dog that is killing livestock needs to be stopped, but even here in the Northeast people shoot first and, well, quite frankly never ask questions later. They just see a dog and ASSume. Having volunteered in a vet office, I've seen a lot of that crap. Some pretty messed up animals come through, and some pretty devastated owners. Totally stinks what happened to your baby.

Link to post

Darlene, don't get me wrong here but it's simply the law of the land when you have livestock. A dog cannot and will not be allowed to run on our land. We've had sheep and calves both killed by dogs that were the neighbors. We knew they were around BUT being they belonged to the neighbors we spoke to them and let them know. They did nothing so, long story short, SSS was applied. One night we lost 3 calves to 2 dogs that belonged to the neighbors. Another night 2 bred ewes. That blood lust thing is strong in animals.

 

City people do not like it but when you leave the city and move to the country you'll learn to live by country rules. This sounds tough but we've had a lot of city folk move here and lose dogs...expensive dogs....but they learned after a time or two to keep them on their own property.

 

We don't take it lightly, don't ever think we do, BUT the livestock is a big part of our income. Those 3 calves that were killed were valued at about $400 each and the sheep probably $150-$200 each. When the calves were grown they'd have brought in a good $1,000 - $1500 a piece.

 

You learned a hard, sad and expensive lesson but I'm sure you learned it well. Did you let your dogs run wild in Miami? I doubt it.

Link to post

I understand that it would be horribly painful to have a dog disappear. But that is often the way city people who move to the country have to learn to keep their dogs at home, unfortunately. It is harsh, but there is a reason for it. It deals with SURVIVAL, survival of livestock.

 

Back when I was a young woman, having moved back to the country, I had a pack of dogs get into my pasture and chase my livestock. I ran out there with my dogs and chased them out. But they still lurked around outside the fence. I knew that the various members of the pack probably belonged to people living around me, so I hesitated to shoot them. I called the county animal control and they told me to shoot the dogs, that they didn't have the time or resources to gather up all the city people's dogs that chase livestock.

 

The real trouble is that city people move to the country and let their dogs roam free. Those dogs may be sweet pets, but they end up wandering and chasing livestock. They don't have to even BITE an animal to kill it, as they can literally chase them to death or run them into fences, etc. But the dog owners have no comprehension of the damage their dogs are doing, and they cannot imagine that Fifi could possibly act predatory and chase people's livestock. It isn't "just" sheep and goats and chickens that are at risk (somehow city people aren't worried about the smaller livestock, for some reason), but even cattle. I know one farmer who lost several calves one spring to such dogs, and he finally had to camp out with the calves until he could shoot the dogs. Farmers don't like stray dogs because of the terrible damage they cause. If it is wandering, it is straying, whether it is a well-fed, micro-chipped Fifi or not.

 

The laws generally codify the SSS rule in many states. You have a right to defend your livestock from other people's dogs.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love dogs. I own dogs. But I don't let my dogs roam. And I also won't hesitate to shoot a dog that is causing problems with livestock.

Link to post

I knew this law when I raised dogs. I kept them home, but sometimes they got out. I knew that they were in danger of being shot. I had 2 dig out after a rain storm. One came home and I could not figure out why the other was not with him. We looked and looked. We called the neighbors and asked if they saw him to call. About 3 days later we got a call from a man that raised pheasants and other birds. He had traps around the outside of his place and he went and checked the traps and this half grown pup was in the trap. Toes froze and had to put him down. The only thing I was upset about was that he had not checked the traps daily.

Link to post

I am sure losing your puppy was heartbreaking, Darlene. But imagine how I felt watching a dog rip the throat out of a week old kid while its' mama was screaming and crying for her and the big strong buck tried to defend it and was grabbed in the throat for his trouble. I almost lost him too. When I confronted the owner (a newly countrified lady), she insisted that her dog wouldn't hurt a fly and my animals must have done something to set him off.(in a small kidding run on MY property, 3 miles away). I told her once a dog gets killing livestock in their blood, nothing will ever make them safe again. And a scared human kid running looks an awful lot like a little animal to a dog like that. She refused to do anything about it and never offered to pay me for a purebred animal worth several hundred dollars.

I feel for folks whose dog gets out "that one time" and runs into trouble. But I try to make an effort to get to know my neighbors dogs to be able to judge whether they are a problem or not. A strange dog may be feral, have rabies or not. I can't tell and I am not waiting for it to kill my animals or attack my kids to find out. Just saying.

One "red flag" that I notice lately is related. The number of pets being dumped off is up and some shelters are reporting that adoptions are way down.

Link to post

maybe they're the rest of Michael vicks gang. do yourself a favor and call the dog warden, maybe some of them don't have tags, maybe some have chips and are stolden.

then again, maybe it's just some disabled vets with a (meany) and her grown pups.

I know if anyone moved next to me with pit bulls, I'd find out why he needs so many and let them know where the property line was and where his dogs where to stop.

Link to post

A good friend of mine breeds quarter horses. A few years back, a pair of little spaniels got into her fenced pastures and ran a prized mare until she aborted. The mare ended up dying too. Those two little spaniels "played with her" to death.

Link to post

We actually have one of the tricycles for grownups!. Unfortunately it was parked in the back yard under DS's bedroom window when the fire started (in his room!) The front tire and the cables are melted, and now it sits in the garage among lots of "stuff" while we rebuild - out of pocket, no insurance. Sure am ready for the repairs to be finished so we can get back to a "normal" life whatever that is.

DH says he is going to take a couple days off work, to work intensively on the house, and has promised to take me fishing part of the time Yippeeee!.

 

Link to post
Originally Posted By: Charlene in VA
He got really serious and said that from what he had heard - chicken was getting ready to go sky high


Thank you for the heads up. I will be stocking up/filling my freezer with chicken this week!
Link to post
Originally Posted By: Psalm23
One "red flag" that I notice lately is related. The number of pets being dumped off is up and some shelters are reporting that adoptions are way down.


The news here said that horses are being abandoned at record rates. Some are found half starved and others are so bad they are being put down. They said that people that bought them a couple years ago cannot afford them any longer. While they have been around $300 a month to take care of, that price has been increasing steadily.
Link to post
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Charlene in VA
He got really serious and said that from what he had heard - chicken was getting ready to go sky high



Thank you for the heads up. I will be stocking up/filling my freezer with chicken this week!


*****Thanks, Wantabunch for pulling Charlene's RED FLAG out of the middle of that ...er, slight deviation from topic. wink We can't eat chicken in this household but most families use this as one of the most inexpensive meats. So Heads UP, everyone!!! Better see if your area is having any increase in chicken price or shortage of product. eek





Grace&Violets: We don't get TV but I was told that story about all the abandoned/neglected horses in Colorado too. As the owner of two (and one who needs Sr. pellets...ouch!) I have been all toooo aware of the rising hay prices and the rising vet prices. (But the vet's expenses are going up too.) I'm so glad to be on some creek bottom land so I don't buy hay year-'round like most folks up here. DarleneSwoon



MtRider [didn't mind 5 days of SNOW recently, cuz it 'greened up' my pasture ]

Link to post

Yanno, y'all crack me up and I'm not laughing.

 

City people, eh?

 

Let's talk about the freaking dozen COUNTRY dogs that hang out on my property all the time, roaming all around here.

 

Let's talk about how I'm in the middle of treating one of my dogs for mange because one of the COUNTRY dogs had it and wouldn't stay off my property.

 

Let's talk about the COUNTRY people whose dogs are all over the road when you drive around here.

 

I'm gonna drop outta this particular topic because life, whether it be in the city or country, is NOT as cut and dried as y'all try to present.

 

Country people are gonna teach city people a lesson, eh?

 

I'm not going there.

 

For the record, there's very little livestock on this mountain, and my dogs guard livestock, not attack them.

 

Unreal.

 

DarleneSwoon

 

Let's just drop this and get back to red flags of a looming crises.

Link to post

It's really easy to get diverted from a topic, especially when fear is involved like it is in the case of this many dogs living next door but perhaps dogs ARE part of the Red Flag out there.

 

Country OR city, makes no difference. People are people and there's going to be differences of opinions. In this case perhaps we need to look at what Darlene said about Country dogs running all over. Many of these dogs, in our area at least, are dogs abandoned by people who no longer can afford to feed them and that's country and city people both.

 

Dog food and cat food, indeed all pet food has gone up considerably in price just as has livestock and 'people' food. Many people do not know how to feed their pets from cheaper foods they could cook themselves. At one time, in the past, poor people used to buy cat and dog food to feed themselves as it was cheap. That is not the case any longer when a can of tuna (on sale) can be had cheaper than some cat foods.

 

Like the abandoned horses, we will be seeing more and more abandoned animals and that will start to cause problems as they try to find food for themselves. In most instances people will drive far from their homes to drop off unwanted animals, often times dropping them in the country side with the mistaken idea that they will be able to find food for themselves. Just in the last month we've see over ten stray cats in our area. We had one so starved that it was eating our chicken feed in the coop. Thankfully it was domesticated enough it had no idea what a chicken was but we've also had strays trying to stalk our chickens. Thankfully our old hens do NOT like cats and they soon had it running but we have two baby geese wandering with their parents and are worried that soon they will look like food to some stray. ( I need a livestock gaurdian dog for sure but can't afford to buy or feed it. So far the adult geese have been more than a formidable foe to all who get near)

 

There really is nothing we can do to stop the escalation of stray animals that's going to surely occur as people start feeling the effects of the economy. What I wonder about is how soon people will start eating their pets instead of abandoning them? I've already heard some instances of people taking in strays to do just that.

 

(Oh and Darlene, beware of fox and coyote also. They are notorious carriers of mange. Your guardian dogs, even well fenced, may come in contact with them and contract it.)

 

Keep watching for those red flags, even those which cause such controversy, in fact ESPECIALLY those which cause it. Try not to get defensive with the messenger or go off on a tangent with the message but look at that message and ask yourself what it means to your preps.

 

Red Flags are meant to be a warning of more to come. In this case, I'm pretty sure you will see more of this problem in the near future.

 

bighug

Link to post

Just a note as to what Mother said... being in dog rescue, I have to say that we are turning a lot of dogs away from our rescue because there are too many to "save." We rescue rottweilers, so we have always been very careful to do temperament tests on the animals before they are allowed into our rescue. "Bad" dogs or hard dogs are put down, as we don't need more rotts in the news... however, now we are putting down what before we would consider "good" dogs. Just not enough room or enough adopters.

 

Of course, it could be that the breed is less popular. However, the shelters seem more crowded as well. We have breed rescues now taking on dogs that they don't officially rescue. For instance, one GSD rescue has a rott, and our rott rescue has a lab. That's a red flag for me.

 

For those stray cats... if you are inclined to help them rather than put them down, you can call your local rescue who can come out and capture them to spay them. Unfortunately, most will return the spayed cats back where they came from. But at least they won't be having babies. In the country where I live, it's sometimes best just to put them down, they often suffer or become coyote food. Any "domestic" cat will eventually turn feral and begin to realize those chickens are food.

Link to post

Part of the problem with horses being dumped is that a law was passed to prevent them being slaughtered for meat. So people who cannot feed or care for them and cannot afford the fees to have them put down and disposed of in a land fill, are abandoning them.

Link to post

From Bankrate, http://www.bankrate.com/nltrack/news/chk...oundup_20080516 "the increased risk has prompted the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., or FDIC, to beef up its staffing in anticipation of banks going belly-up."

 

Also, British Airways has grounded some of its fleet due to rising fuel prices, speculation is that Delta, American and Northwest will follow suit. Just search "BA to ground planes" to find many articles on that story.

 

Link to post

I'm not liking that there was a need/audience for such an article as the bank failures.

 

Tells ya whats on peoples minds....

 

Link to post
Originally Posted By: Darlene
Yanno, y'all crack me up and I'm not laughing.

City people, eh?

Let's talk about the freaking dozen COUNTRY dogs that hang out on my property all the time, roaming all around here.

Let's talk about how I'm in the middle of treating one of my dogs for mange because one of the COUNTRY dogs had it and wouldn't stay off my property.

Let's talk about the COUNTRY people whose dogs are all over the road when you drive around here.

I'm gonna drop outta this particular topic because life, whether it be in the city or country, is NOT as cut and dried as y'all try to present.

Country people are gonna teach city people a lesson, eh?

I'm not going there.

For the record, there's very little livestock on this mountain, and my dogs guard livestock, not attack them.

Unreal.

DarleneSwoon

Let's just drop this and get back to red flags of a looming crises.


Well, Darlene, I can't speak for whoever shot your dog. I do know a woman with livestock guardian dogs who are great at guarding goats but who kill chickens. They also wander off her place. Yours probably don't chase or kill anything and the person who shot your dog did so for the sport of it.

I live in a very agricultural area, too, and so my view of livestock is probably very different from yours. Around here, where there are many cow-calf operations, sheep farms, goat farms, poultry, etc., people take a very dim view of stray dogs. You don't see them wandering the roads as you describe. Then, someone will move in, new to the area, and a dog or three will suddenly start marauding the area and harassing livestock. And then it stops.

I will shoot a dog that harasses my livestock. I will also shoot an intruder in my home if it ever comes to that. I believe in protecting me and my own from whatever dangers present themselves, whether in dog or coyote or human form.

Clearly, not everyone believes in defending livestock.

I agree with Mother that where people are seeing increases in the numbers of roaming animals, that is a potential red flag for a worsening economy. The cost of feeding animals is going up.



Link to post
Originally Posted By: NYDebbie
I was talking to a woman at my Y who was having to think about wether it was worth it to work - she lives 25 miles from the Y and they pay her minimum wage. What a horrible position to be in!


NY Debbie,
I've had to make choices like that before. When I was a student & working minimum wage or commuting into Oregon (I live in Vancouver, WA, just north of Portland, OR) I had to weigh my options more than I would care to admit. Some days, it just wasn't worth it. My gas cost more than they would pay me for the day....and I REFUSE to spend 3 hours on a bus 1 WAY...There were times when I stayed overnight with family & friends (Boy that car BOB really got used!) but I was so thankful when I got work closer to home. smile Now, if I can find a job where I can bike to work...EXCELLENT! flowersmilie
Link to post
Originally Posted By: wantabunch
I rolled all the coins from our change jars and took it into the bank. ($170 - YEAH!) When I plopped it on the counter at the bank, the teller said Wow, more coins! And said she can't believe how many people are bringing in coins lately. Made me wonder if people are having to raid their change jars to dig up grocery or gas money.


SO what happens when that is exhausted??? We've had to be really careful in our neighborhood about locking up anything METAL. Copper, steel, etc. theives used to be limited to those with a meth or drug problem. Now (when turning in pieces of short electrical wire), my DH said he saw a JETTA at the recyclers full of materials...used to be only beat-up trucks and cars with expired plates.
Link to post
Originally Posted By: NYDebbie
I filled my gas tank today with $4.05 gas. furious I knew it was coming, but still duck

We are, to an extent, living a fireside story, aren't we?


NYDebbie, gas out here is now averaging $3.80+ for regular unleaded and for diesel a heart-stopping $4.85 at some places...

www.washingtongasprices.com/vancouver
Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.