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Small asteroid to hit Earth 10-7-08


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Darlene, as usual your summary is spot on! Thanks.

 

Cootie, a few months ago, we deciding to start attending a local church that most closely aligned with our beliefs. We do not attend every service but we go very often and enjoy it very much. We also visit the Messianic Synagogue when possible to celebrate the feast days.

 

I have seven children and am already homeschooling them which includes a lot of homechurch/training/study nearly every single day. The church we chose has a boys program that we wanted our boys to participate in, similar to the Scouts, but with Spiritual Training. We decided it would be a blessing to our family and that was a big part of our decision. As well as my realization that we were not connected to our community and needed to be so in case of crisis.

 

brendajo, I agree with almost everything you said wink I do want to clarify one thing. When Paul was referring to the yoke of the law, he was referring to the 'expanded' edition that included many fence laws (see my previous post up there somewhere). The law has NOT been done away with or that would mean we don't even abide by the 10 commandments. Jesus said that He did not come to abolish the law but to complete it *to make it perfect. BRB with that reference.

 

And the instructions that God Himself gave about the Biblical feast say over and over again that these are to be EVERLATING. So, that's something to consider.

 

 

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Here's that scripture reference:

 

Mat 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

We are absolutely saved by grace and nothing beside! However, there is much fulness and joy in life to walk in the manner in which He has laid before us. smile

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My apologies for straying off topic on this thread.

 

Brendajo,

I prayed to God this morning and apoloized, repented and asked for forgiveness for straying from His original Sabbath. I am more convinced then ever that God's seventh day, His Holy Sabbath has always been, is now and will forever be His true Sabbath.

 

I do not mean to preach, I am only presenting this more for me, than anything. And I do not mean to start any kind of debate. For some reason, I just need to say this. I don't mean to offend anyone. I guess I am just so happy to be given truths by God, and for the chance to always come back to His Ways, even when I stray.

 

These are just a few of the many, many things the Bible says about the Sabbath. I am just scratching the surface.

 

Romans 3:31

"Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."

 

Yes we are saved by faith and grace alone. No amount of Sabbath keeping will ever save us, however, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The ten commandments are not gone. We just don't need cerimonial laws anymore because Jesus covered that once and for all with his shed blood.

 

 

Matthew 12:8

"For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

 

(self-explanatory)

 

Matthew 5: 17-18

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For asssuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

 

Yes, Jesus fulfilled the Law, but he did not abolish it, as stated above. Nowhere in Scripture does God or Jesus give us authority to change the seventh day as the Holy Sabbath to Sunday. In the fourth century, the Catholic church (Constantine to be exact) changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and admit it fully in their writings in their church documents. This is an undeniable fact. They adopted pagan holidays and gave them Christian names, such as Christmas, Easter, etc. In Daniel, we are warned that the days and times will be changed. I believe that is what we are experiencing in these end times, and I am grateful to God for putting me back on the right path.

 

Thank you Jesus.

 

Once again, please know that I do not mean to offend, and I apologize in advance if I have. Please forgive me. God Bless every one of you.

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This is pretty neat, reading all this at this moment. My oldest son called last night. He's what he calls "a New Testament Christian."

 

Yeah. OK. Uh huh.

 

He loves the Lord so desperately that I just watch him and my daughter in law grow in the Lord and don't put in much unless I'm asked.

 

So the last few weeks, unknown to me, my son has been burying himself in the Old Testament. He did call a couple times with questions about Isaiah and God's terrible holiness. He didn't like it much. It made him feel uncomfortable with God. I couldn't comfort him. Pretty much just had to say, "This is your God, Joshua. I can't change Him so that you will like him more or feel more comfortable with him."

 

Not a satisfactory answer for a young man deeply disturbed by new to him revelation of the God he serves.

 

Anyway! Last night I get a late night phone call from Joshua. He's so excited. He said, "I read one small paragraph in Galations tonigt. It's the first time I've read in the New Testament in a few weeks. And it read so differently! I just realized, you can't fully understand the New Testament unless you know the Old! You can't fully understand Christ's sacrifice until you understand God's holiness! It would be GOOD for us to die and suffer and be tormented forever because of what we are apart from Christ. If that is GOOD, then that means...it means...it means I've never really understood."

 

rofl

 

I love my Father. I love my son. What a lovely few moments. smile

 

Anyway, all that to say to Brendajo and others, we did talk further about the law and the Sabbath and fasting (big lovely deal in Isaiah).

 

What it boils down to is that if you think the law can make you holy or save you, it cannot. If that is your purpose in following the law, you are lost.

 

However, if you toss all of that out, then...where is the obedience? Where is the lovely interaciton between you and the Father. The law and the observances show WHO He is, what He loves, how He loves us, how this whole universe thing works.

 

The New Testament tells of the fulfillment of the laws and observances...but it doesn't take them away.

 

If you toss them out, then you have tossed out the one sure fire way you have of walking in obedience.

 

Right now the church has a few things they do "in obedience". Like, don't forget the assembling together, be kind to one another, the Ten Commandments...and the always interesting but ubiquitous "The Lord told me to turn right at this street and get out at a certain house and knock on the door and give $10 to this lady and she started crying and telling me that's just what she needed to finish paying her rent."

 

And...well, that's pretty much it.

 

I'm sure some of you could add to what is understood to be obedience in the church today, but that really isn't my point.

 

The point is that the law was there to show us the need for Christ and holiness, but it is also an expression of Who and What God is. In observing the observances, there is a richness that is *not* legalism.

 

You know, a long time ago I thought the first 11 chapters of Genesis was just the beginning of the story.

 

Something changed, and now I realize it is the most important, absolutely important, foundation of the whole story, and if it isn't understood and read carefully and fully believed, then the rest of the story is kind of...hollow.

 

I think the Father is leading His church...not *the* church, but *His* church...into a more full understanding of Him in these days. Perhaps because it is because we are in the end days. I don't know. But *His* church is not going to be part of the mainstream...because it never is.

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I totally agree that the law has not been abolished and that Gods feasts and festivals are still part of His perfect plan.Please forgive me if I have upset anyone.I know in my heart I could never keep God's laws and no amount of trying in my own strength would ever be good enough.I have heard over the years so many things for example: If you don't confess every sin every day,even if you leave out just one you will go to hell.If a woman cuts her hair she will go to hell.If you are smoking a cigarette and the rapture happens you will be left here.and one of my all time favorites if a child is a bastard(Is not concieved in wedlock)They can never be saved,These things are being preached in churches today.So many people have been hurt and turned away from a loving God because they have been told they have to keep all of God's laws and they know they can't.My bottom line is not to leave out the only way to be saved and that is through the blood of Jesus that was shed for our sins.Then every thing else can be added.I am sorry I did not mean to offend anyone.

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First!!! Brenda, you did not in any way offend me! And I know exactly what you mean about the 'manmade' laws.

 

My precious Grandma, who is still living at 88 yrs old, attended one of the churches with lots and lots of "standards" as they called it and I feel as if she's been scared to death all of her life that she might miss out on salvation if she made the smallest of slips. I totally understand what you mean about that.

 

Shurleen, I loved the story about your son and his 'eyes being opened that he could see'. That's the prayer I pray most for the people I love and care about...Open the Eyes of their hearts Lord!!

 

Cootie, sounds like you arrived at some big decisions and I pray that you will continue to listen closely to the leading of the Holy Spirit and experience great growth in your spiritual life.

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Originally Posted By: cootie
My apologies for straying off topic on this thread.

Brendajo,
I prayed to God this morning and apoloized, repented and asked for forgiveness for straying from His original Sabbath. I am more convinced then ever that God's seventh day, His Holy Sabbath has always been, is now and will forever be His true Sabbath.

I do not mean to preach, I am only presenting this more for me, than anything. And I do not mean to start any kind of debate. For some reason, I just need to say this. I don't mean to offend anyone. I guess I am just so happy to be given truths by God, and for the chance to always come back to His Ways, even when I stray.

These are just a few of the many, many things the Bible says about the Sabbath. I am just scratching the surface.

Romans 3:31
"Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."

Yes we are saved by faith and grace alone. No amount of Sabbath keeping will ever save us, however, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The ten commandments are not gone. We just don't need cerimonial laws anymore because Jesus covered that once and for all with his shed blood.


Matthew 12:8
"For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

(self-explanatory)

Matthew 5: 17-18
"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For asssuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

Yes, Jesus fulfilled the Law, but he did not abolish it, as stated above. Nowhere in Scripture does God or Jesus give us authority to change the seventh day as the Holy Sabbath to Sunday. In the fourth century, the Catholic church (Constantine to be exact) changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and admit it fully in their writings in their church documents. This is an undeniable fact. They adopted pagan holidays and gave them Christian names, such as Christmas, Easter, etc. In Daniel, we are warned that the days and times will be changed. I believe that is what we are experiencing in these end times, and I am grateful to God for putting me back on the right path.

Thank you Jesus.

Once again, please know that I do not mean to offend, and I apologize in advance if I have. Please forgive me. God Bless every one of you.
Cootie, you did a great job! I kept nodding my head amen because you did a superb job. wink

We ARE only saved by grace, but that doesn't mean we have no guidelines. If God took away those guidelines in how He wants to be loved, how He wants us to love each other (those bothersome laws and commandments wink ) we'd be chaotic. Well, we are chaotic, everybody is doing something different! Look at the different churches and different church doctrines. Uhm, yeah. Without reading the OT, you have no foundation, you do not know the Father and His heart, His Word, and if you don't know the Father, how will you know the Son, who is the Word made flesh?!

I NEVER mean to hurt anyone's feelings, but when I read verses from the Son, our Messiah Himself, who tells us He has not abolished the law, or 1 John 2:3-6, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 5:3 and many, many other verses, I wonder how did the church get soooo far off track? When you have this kind of contradiction between church doctrine (nailed the the cross) vs. bible, there is a misunderstanding and a misapplication going on. Paul was Torah Observant (TO), and when you read the bible from that perspective, knowing that he was TO, it changes drastically what you understand and see him teaching. In Acts 21 I think it was, he was participating in animal sacrifices! and this was waaay after Jesus' death. That takes me back to when Jesus said He did not abolish the law. (BTW - Peter tells us that Paul is difficult to understand)

There have ALWAYS been people assembling together, to learn about God. Hmmm, did God start that first assembly at Mt Sinai? The church is a part of His plan, but it is not the whole of His plan. There were Jews living God's word righteously, they were doing good things. They were doing the same things that Jesus did. And if Jesus did those things (dietary laws, feasts and festivals, etc), it reasons to believe those things were righteous. wink They are God's laws, whether or not we understand them. It is not for me to ask Him "why", it is for me to love Him enough to obey Him.

Sorry this is probably a scrambly post, I'm getting things ready for Yom Kippur tonight (yes, I'm one of those people, a Messianic), otherwise I'd reread what I've posted here. But honestly, if someone wants to research, they've been given many ideas here to run with. Pray that God gives you understanding and convicts your heart. When I decided I needed to research law vs. grace, I'd pull up a bunch of articles, print them, and read them all w/ my bible. This article might make some great points about it being only grace, but then I'd read this article that made great points about it being law and grace, so I knew it was law AND grace. Without law, we are lawless, and that is not what the Father wanted for us. We are to be a holy and set apart people, not lawless. The two biggies in the beginning of this path I've been on, almost a year ago, was Sabbath and law and grace. Those were HUGE to me, and when you find one error in your church's doctrine like I did, you start questioning everything, and the list keeps growing longer and longer.

Shurleen, your son is getting it, what a great blessing!

Saved by the whine. grin DS needs help with something, gotta go.

Love you guys, and pray about it. Find out what traditions are of men, and which ones of from God, you will be amazed.

bighug
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Brendajo,

 

Don't worry, I am not offended at all. I agree with you about us hopelessly sinful humans who cannot keep the Law. And no, the Law cannot save us....it is merely the "Schoolmaster." But I have a question for you.

 

Why do you get baptized?

 

Is it to be saved? No, baptizm cannot save you. No matter how many times you try. One gets baptized because it is commanded of our Lord to do so, and we do it because we love Him and want to follow His commandments. It is a symbol of our devotion to God.

 

So then why do we obey the Law?

 

Will it save us? No. Only Jesus was perfect and was able to keep the Law perfectly. We keep the Law because God commanded us to, and we love Him, so we obey. It is a symbol of our devotion to God.

 

Keep in mind that the laws of Moses were those "extras" that we don't need to keep because of Jesus' sacrifice. But the core of the Law, such as the 10 commandments and the feast days will endure forever.

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Just for the record, I'm not offended. smile

 

I'm enjoying this conversation, and learning a lot from it.

 

Joshua and I were talking last night about how thin the line is between following legalistic laws (manmade standards) and rejoicing in obedience and being given something to actually OBEY! Isn't that just too exciting?

 

Tho there is a thin line between the two, they are very very different things.

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So interesting where this has gone. Thank you Lord.

 

It's always been about Faith and Grace. Abraham believed God (the word used there is the word for faith) and it was reckoned (counted) to him as righteousness. Abraham was born in Mesopotamia, moved to Haran (northern Syria/southern Turkey) and God moved him to what is now Israel but he walked all over the Middle East including Egypt. He was not Jewish. Yep, I did say that. Find me one scripture thar refers to Abraham as a Jew. There's not one.

He was a Hebrew and the father of Isaac and grandfather of Jacob. Jacob (the deceiver/supplanter/manipulator) wrestled with God until he lost. He confessed 'i am jacob'. Then he was 'renamed' Israel. His descendants were known as Hebrew or Israelites through scripture until the dispersion of Judah around 586 BC.

The first time the word 'Jew' is used in scripture is during and after the dispersion to Babylon. There is one reference before that to 'the Judean languange' meaning the language that was spoken in Judea, but the first time 'people' were referred to as Jews was by Jeremiah.

I could go into a long thing about the Sinai covenant, but the bottom line is that the festivals were celebrations that God Almighty referred to as 'My Feasts'. They were all a 'picture' of what was to come (spring feasts) and what is to come yet for us (Fall Feasts) even though it's been done in Spirit since Abraham's time. We are his seed growing where we are planted.

The key to me has been to 'be willing'. Not slavishly following every word of some Pastor who may have an agenda that even he has not questioned honestly before the Lord. He could very well have just taken what he was fed as Truth without question (and maybe out of convenience) and not ever wrestled for Truth.

For example, the whole thing about pork. Bottom line is that pork is not a healthy food for humans to eat. God's Torah (which means teaching and has been distorted into Law) is Wisdom. Christ Yeshua is the Living Word, the Living Torah. His Spirit is our Teacher. Hello...? He personally is our Teacher, not any man and certainly not human tradition. The one fundamental is willingness to be taught and even yearned for by us wanting to know Him as He truly IS now. We must desire Truth more than anything else. Take a look at 2 Thess 2:7 or so to see what happens to those who don't.

This evening is the beginning of Yom Kippur. It's the Highest of the High Holy Days with prayer, repentance and fasting prescribed. It's such a great honor to even be present for something like that in our gathering (small though it is) and I know that God Almighty Himself will show up in ways I cannot even imagine.

I've got lots more to say but time is short. I just want to point you to a few scriptures to consider. First, the book of Jonah. Nineveh repented at the word of the Lord by an unwilling 'servant' of the Lord when Israel (both north and south) were in open idolatry. Then read Is 65: 1-5. Then read Is 30:15 and Jer 6:16. God specifically says some things about what He wanted from Israel that they refused then. I urge you to say yes now. Willingness is the key.

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Thankyou. I dont know much at all yet about how these holy days are exactly separated, but I set up something that has meaning to me and includes my son, my dad, and my sons fiance and things for myself with a candle. Sunset is fast approaching.

It will be a special dinner, as pure as I can make it.

Thankyou. Maybe next year I will have studied and know what to do.

But my heart is in the right place.

Sunset is at 6:21pm tonight.

 

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Originally Posted By: Stephanie
ScreamingEagle,

BTW, that was a great post! I wish you'd consider doing a study about the feasts as a thread of its on. I've learned some, but a long way to go. Perhaps just the fall feasts to start?

prettyplease


I second the motion.
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Aww..shucks...thanks. I'll be glad to do it. One question first though. Check this out to see if you think it pretty much covers the bases of what you're looking for. I haven't looked at all of this but it's an honest effort that may get you where you want to be... at least for now. It's a journey, right?

 

http://www.mrssurvival.com/forums/ubbthr...ge=2#Post227375

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Hello everyone! smile My first post is a 'thank you'. I can't recall why I came (stumbled) upon MrsSurvival's site (probably researching self-sufficient-ness) and wouldn't you know that the topic line of this thread caught my eye. What amazed me is that it led into the discussion of Sabbath and then became a confirmation of the avenue the Lord is leading my husband and I down - and that turning to the true Sabbath day.

 

My husband and I were both amazed at how the Lord directed me to this thread - and gently nudged us back into the thinking of changing our lifestyles to meet Him on His day. (grin) We'd been researching off and on over the course of about a month - and this thread solidified it for us.

 

So - thank you. smile

 

In His Love & Service

 

CoffeeZilla

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Originally Posted By: CoffeeZilla
Hello everyone! smile My first post is a 'thank you'. I can't recall why I came (stumbled) upon MrsSurvival's site (probably researching self-sufficient-ness) and wouldn't you know that the topic line of this thread caught my eye. What amazed me is that it led into the discussion of Sabbath and then became a confirmation of the avenue the Lord is leading my husband and I down - and that turning to the true Sabbath day.

My husband and I were both amazed at how the Lord directed me to this thread - and gently nudged us back into the thinking of changing our lifestyles to meet Him on His day. (grin) We'd been researching off and on over the course of about a month - and this thread solidified it for us.

So - thank you. smile

In His Love & Service

CoffeeZilla
welcome6

How exciting!

my family started honoring Sabbath at the beginning of this year and it has been such a blessing for us! It really is quite wonderful!

All the best!
LBV

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