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Romans 7:12-17


Darlene

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Heavenly Father,

 

This last week and a half has been an accelerated time...driving down to Miami, taking my mom some whole grains, teaching her how to grind those grains into flour and then to take that flour and make it into bread. I took her a bunch of produce that I ha d picked from my garden, and then worked with her to preserve it through freezing and canning. It was such a joy for me, to take these skills that I've learned over the years, and then to teach and help her, how to accomplish this all on her own. You are doing a very powerful work in her life, not only with the wisdom of prepping, but the health benefits of preparing and eating foods in this manner.

 

In all honesty, as I stood in her kitchen, I had a moment of spiritual clarity that You were putting her into place, with these skills she was not only learning but loving to learn, to meet the needs of the family in the days to come. A sadness filled my heart because I started to remind You that this was a gift that I had always given to my family...how over the years as I prepared, I didn't just prepare for my immediate family, but my extended family too. I don't know how to explain it in the written word Father, but it was as if You were closing that door for me, telling me to trust You with my family, because You are now moving me forward...perhaps a new call on my life, asking me to let go of some of these heartfelt concerns because You are preparing a new work for me. That bucket of oat groats that I bought my son for his birthday...he loves eating freshly flaked oatmeal because he's very into healthy eating and living, is now positioning him to spend more time with his grandmother. I've been flaking the oats and either mailing them or taking them to him when I visit, but You've now closed that door. This isn't about just a bucket of oat groats...this is about spiritual things, and about how You are going to use my mom and dad to minister to my son, to witness to my son....all under the guise of flaking oatmeal. My son is away from You right now, but I know that Your perfect will is that he come back to You. I can talk till I'm blue in the face...I can set all kinds of examples, and walk that straight and narrow, but unless You intervene...unless You, through the power of Your Holy Spirit, intervene in his heart, there's nothing I can do. So that is my prayer this morning Father God...that You would intervene in his heart...opening his spiritual eyes that he might see Your love, Your truth, Your salvation. May that little grain, as it's flaked and broken, bringing forth a wealth of nutrients and vitamins, represent this work that You are doing in my son's life...feeding him spiritually, snatching him from the enemy's grasp. I am his mama, You gave him to me all those years ago, and in turn, I gave him back to You. I have had brilliant successes in my parenting and heart wrenching failures, but You alone are God, and I trust You to bridge that gap and bring my son safely home.

 

And Father, You have laid a burden on my heart...a direction I see You taking me. It is an area that I've never professionally ever done, and it leaves me feeling very inadequate and unqualified. But, just as I have recognized in the past, when You've called me to do certain things, I see You doing that again, right now. I've told You that if You truly want me to walk in this direction, that first and foremost, You will have to pave the way. Not only that, if this truly is a calling from You, then You will have to birth Romans 6, 7 and 8 into my heart and my life. I sometimes wonder why I do certain things, and right now is one of those times...I have said to You, "if this is the direction You want me to go, then You will have to birth Romans 6, 7 and 8 into my heart and mind, otherwise I'm not going to go". I have sensed Your Spirit laying on my heart, "try Me", so Father, I am willing to step out in faith, without having everything organized or everything I need, and will try You...I will trust You, leaving whatever outcome, in Your hands, not mine.

 

Pour out Your Spirit over this study today. May our eyes be opened to Your spiritual truths, because You have given them out of love and sacrifice through Your Son Jesus.

 

I love You Father, I really, really do.

 

In Jesus Name I pray,

 

 

 

12. So that the Law indeed is holy, and the Commandment holy, and righteous, and good.

 

13. Did then that which is good become death unto me? Banish the thought! But sin, that it might appear as sin, by working out death to me through that which is good; - that through the Commandment sin might become exceeding sinful!

 

14. For we know that the Law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

 

15. For that which I am working out, I do not own: for not what I am wishing this am I doing: but what I am hating - this I am practicing.

 

16. But if what I am not wishing, I am practicing, I am consenting unto the Law that it is right.

 

17. So, therefore, no longer is it I that am working it out, but sin which is dwelling in me.

 

I'm also going to put these verses in the Amplified Version because I like the way it lays it out:

 

12. The Law therefore is holy, and [each] commandment is holy and just and good.

 

13. Did that which is good then prove fatal [bringing death] to me? Certainly not! It was sin, working death in me by using this good thing [as a weapon], in order that through the commandment sin might be shown up clearly to be sin, that the extreme malignity and immeasurable sinfulness of sin might plainly appear.

 

14. We know that the Law is spiritual; but I am a creature of the flesh [carnal, unspiritual], having been sold into slavery under [the control of] sin.

 

15. For I do not understand my own actions [i am baffled, bewildered]. I do not practice or accomplish what I wish, but I do the very thing that I loathe [which my moral instinct condemns].

 

16. Now if I do [habitually] what is contrary to my desire, [that means that] I acknowledge and agree that the Law is good (morally excellent) and that I take sides with it.

 

17. However, it is no longer I who do the deed, but the sin [principle] which is at home in me and has possession of me.

 

The rvbv writes regarding verse 12: "The Law is holy, and the Commandment holy, and righteous and good - Here Paul positively refutes the charge that he dishonored God's Law. Nay, more, the Commandment (entole), the direct application to him of the Law, with its fatal consequences to himself, to his self-hopes, he defends. This is the mark of a saint: he upholds God, and condemns himself.

 

Verse 13: But now that he answers the further question: Did then that which is good become death unto me? And again his answer is, Banish the thought! But it was indwelling sin that wrought death to me, - using indeed, that which was good. Through the Commandment,, thus, Sin was shown to be sin. The more fully and widely the Law resolved itself in new and fresh commands to Paul's soul, the more intense and desperate became the indwelling Sin's horrid opposition to it. Thus was Sin's hideous contenance seen in full! It became exceeding sinful!

 

In general, we may say that in verses 14 to 17, the emphasis is upon the practicing what is hated, - that is, the inability to overcome evil in the flesh; while in verses 18 to 21, the emphasis is upon the failure to do the desired good, - the inability, on account of the flesh, to do it right."

 

Thus the double failure of a quickened man either to over-come evil or to accomplish good - is set forth. There must come in help from outside, beyond himself! This, of course, is the indwelling Spirit, as the eighth chapter so vividly portrays.

 

In narrating in particular the account of his great struggle in verses 14 to 23, we find the apostle arriving at three definite conclusions.

 

First, in doing what he is not wishing, but practicing what he is hating, his conclusion is: "If what I am not wishing, that I am doing, I am consenting unto the Law that it is right." Verses 14 to 16.

 

Second, It is indwelling sin, and not his real self, that is working out this evil: "But if what I am not wishing, this I am practicing, no longer is it I that am working it out, but on the contrary, sin which dwelleth in me." Verses 17 to 20.

 

Third, There is the terrible revelation of a positive Law (or settled principle) of sin in his members, defeating him despite his inward delight in the Law of God: - "bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members." Verse 23.

 

For we know that the Law is spiritual: But I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I am working out, I do not own: for not what I am wishing this am I doing: but what I am hating - this I am practicing. (The apostle does not say, "We know that the Law is spiritual and we are carnal." Had he done so, it would have been to speak of Christians, as such, in their proper and normal condition."

 

"Romans Seven is not the present experience of anyone, but a delivered person describing the state of an undelivered one. A man in a morass does not quietly describe how a man sinks into it, because he fears to sink and stay there. The end of Romans Seven is a man out of the morass showing in peace the principle and manner in which one sinks in it" (Darby).)

 

The Law is spiritual: but I am carnal - "Spiritual" may include:

 

1. Addressed to man by God, who is "spirit";

2. To "the spirit of man that is in him" (I Cor. 2:11); Therefore:

3. Consisting of communications adapted to and only understandable by beings of a spiritual realm or sphere.

4. "Spiritual," also, in the moral sense; holy because communicated by a holy God.

 

Thus Law is spiritual.

 

But I am carnal: Paul speaks of himself here as he is by nature. He does not say body-ish (sema, body, as opposed to pneuma, spirit) but "carnal": The word sarkinos, translated "carnal," comes from the root, sarks, "flesh."

 

1. If Paul had been speaking of himself before being quickened, he would have used the word natural: "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God" (I Cor. 2:14).

 

2. "Carnal" is not used to describe an unregenerate person, but a Christian not delivered from the power of the flesh: "I, brethern could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ" (I Cor. 3:1).

 

3. In this connection, note that while Paul's condition at the time of this struggle was that of being carnal, there are those that are spiritual: "He that is spiritual judgeth all things" (I Cor. 2:15). "Ye who are spiritual, restore" (Gal. 6:1).

 

4. Therefore, by the word "carnal" Paul was describing a state out of which there was deliverance.

 

We know that carnal, sold under sin - is evidently meant by the apostle in this fourteenth verse to indicate the state of human nature as contrasted with God's holy spiritual Law.

 

Sold under sin: This is slave-market talk: and it describes all of us by nature. Instead of being spiritual and therefore able to hearken to, delight in and obey God's holy spiritual Law, we are turned back, since Adam sinned, to a fleshly condition, our spirits by nature dead to God, and our soul-faculties under the domination of the still unredeemed body. Now Paul, tthough his spirit was quickened; and his inward desires, therefore, were toward God's Law; found to his horror his sstate by nature "carnal," fleshly, "sold under sin." How little humanity realizes this awful, universal fact about man - "sold under sin"!

 

"Sold under sin" is exactly what the new convert does not know! Forgiven, justified, he knows himself to be: and he has the joy of it! But now to find an evil nature, of which he had never become really conscious, and of which he thought himself fully rid, when he first believed, is a "second lesson" which is often more bitter than the first - of guilt!

 

For that which I am working out, I do not own [as my choice]: for not what I am wishing this am I doing, but what I am hating, this I am practicing. (Three Greek verbs expressing conduct are used in these verses: 1. prasso,do; 2. poieo, practise, make a business of; 3. katergadsomai, work out to a result (whether by personal choice or nature). By translating literally we can better get the vivid sense of the original.)

 

We must constantly remember throughout this struggle that it is not a description by the apostle Paul of an experience he was having when he wrote this Epistle! but an experience of a regenerate man before he knows either about indwelling sin, or that he died to sin and to the Law which gives sin its power; and who also does not know the Holy Spirit, as an indwelling presence and power against sin. God let Paul have this experience. And now writes about it that we may read and know all the facts of our salvation: not merely of the awful guilt of our sins, and our forgiveness through the blood of Christ; but also of the moral hideousness of our old selves; and our powerlessness, though regenerate, to deliver outselves, from "the law of sin" in our members.

 

Therefore Paul said that in that struggle he found himself "working out" a manner of life he refused to "own" - to admit as his real choice. For, he says, Not what I am wishing, that am I practicing. The word "wish" or "desire" is not quite strong enough for the Greek word here, (thelo); but the word will is too strong; for "will" has come in English to have the element of carrying a purpose through; which Paul was unable to do. His holy wish never mounted the throne of I will.

 

Verse 16: But now he gains a further step: But if what I am not wishing, I am practicing, I am consenting unto the Law that it is right. The wicked man does what he is wishing; and is willing to condemn God's Law if it interferes with him. But Paul cries in this struggle, "I have just discovered that I am not at all in my heart opposing the Law; but am in my heart of hearts consenting that it is right." And that is a very real step. In the matter of forgiveness, the thief on the cross took that step, in saying to his fellow, "We receive the due reward of our deeds." And Paul, forgiven but undelivered, cries, "The Law is right! My heart consents to God's Word and God's Way, - however far I am from following it! And now he pursues his advantage:

 

So therefore, no longer is it I that am working it out, but sin which is dwelling in me.

 

Verse 17: "No longer I!" That was a wonderful discovery! For a forgiven Saul, who had gone on in joy awhile without inward trouble, it was indeed a terrible awakening to become again convicted - not now of sins, but of indwelling sin, of a hateful power that seemed one's very self - but was really "our old man." (For, though our old man was crucified with Christ, put in the place of certain, though not instant death - we find, though we have "put him off" (Col. 3:9) we must "put away," as to every thing of the former life, "the old man" (Eph. 4:22). And, to be put away, he must be discovered to us, and this is what is so vividly set before us in this struggle. Note, it is never said the old man is dead, but that we died. We were federally identified with Christ, and passed on with Him into burial, and now share His Risen life. The old man is not to be "counted dead" (as some very dear brethren have put it): but to be counted crucified - his place being there only.) But he is making discoveries about himself - amazing things, brought out for the first time in Scripture. He is going much further than "consenting to the Law that it is right" (verse 16); for now, instead of being completely overwhelmed by this holy, righteous Law; he arrives at (and writes down for us!) a conclusion that is daring: Since I am doing what I am not wishing, there must be another and evil principle working within me. For it is not my real self that is working out this evil, but sin which dwelleth in me. An unwelcome, hateful presence!"

 

Watchman Nee comments on several verses. In verse 14 he comments on "For we know" and writes "The inward, subjective consciousness." He also comments on the word "spiritual" in this verse, stating: "The same in essence, nature, and substance as God, who is Spirit (John 4:24)." Finally, he comments on the word "fleshy" writing, "Paul saw that he was contrary to all that is portrayed by the law. It is spiritual, holy, righteous, and good; he was fleshy, common and defiled, unjust, and evil."

 

In verse 15, he comments on "For that which I work out, I do now own/acknowledge" and states: "Literally, 'do not know, i.e., do not acknowledge, do not approve of. Paul did not allow, approve of, or acknowledge his wrong action, for it issued from his flesh, which served the law of sin against his mind and against his will."

 

In verse 17, he comments on the word "dwells/dwelling" and states: "Literally, houses itself. Sin does not merely abide or remain within us for a time; it makes a home in us."

 

 

 

Heavenly Father,

 

It's taken me hours to get this study done today lol. Between supposed 'important interruptions', and the fact that my computer is really messing up today (I had to reboot it 3 times and it's still messing up lol), I've had to press forward to get it done. Thank You for today's study...as I typed it and read, I realized that these particular verses today, are exactly where I have been stuck at for a while now spiritually. From the moment I started doing this Romans study, I have looked forward to getting through all the preceeding verses, to arrive at this point because this is where I'm at...this is what I need to learn. So Father, I ask, in my heart and publicaly, that You would birth this knowledge, this understanding, this truth in my life...for Your glory.

 

And Father, in the days to come, the enemies hits are sure to come. May Your hand of protection and preservation be over this study.

 

I trust You, I love You.

 

In Jesus Name I pray,

 

 

Link to post
And Father, in the days to come, the enemies hits are sure to come. May Your hand of protection and preservation be over this study.

 

...and we pray that Your protecting Hand will be over Darlene as she brings this study to us and over all who read and try to delve into/apply Your truths in Romans.

 

MtRider [...and Father God, will You accomplish something about Darlene's malfunctioning computer since it is a tool needed for this method of spreading Your Word. :amen: ]

Link to post
...and we pray that Your protecting Hand will be over Darlene as she brings this study to us and over all who read and try to delve into/apply Your truths in Romans.

 

MtRider [...and Father God, will You accomplish something about Darlene's malfunctioning computer since it is a tool needed for this method of spreading Your Word. :amen: ]

 

You're so sweet ((((mr))))

Link to post
Heavenly Father,

 

This last week and a half has been an accelerated time...driving down to Miami, taking my mom some whole grains, teaching her how to grind those grains into flour and then to take that flour and make it into bread. I took her a bunch of produce that I ha d picked from my garden, and then worked with her to preserve it through freezing and canning. It was such a joy for me, to take these skills that I've learned over the years, and then to teach and help her, how to accomplish this all on her own. You are doing a very powerful work in her life, not only with the wisdom of prepping, but the health benefits of preparing and eating foods in this manner.

 

In all honesty, as I stood in her kitchen, I had a moment of spiritual clarity that You were putting her into place, with these skills she was not only learning but loving to learn, to meet the needs of the family in the days to come. A sadness filled my heart because I started to remind You that this was a gift that I had always given to my family...how over the years as I prepared, I didn't just prepare for my immediate family, but my extended family too. I don't know how to explain it in the written word Father, but it was as if You were closing that door for me, telling me to trust You with my family, because You are now moving me forward...perhaps a new call on my life, asking me to let go of some of these heartfelt concerns because You are preparing a new work for me. That bucket of oat groats that I bought my son for his birthday...he loves eating freshly flaked oatmeal because he's very into healthy eating and living, is now positioning him to spend more time with his grandmother. I've been flaking the oats and either mailing them or taking them to him when I visit, but You've now closed that door. This isn't about just a bucket of oat groats...this is about spiritual things, and about how You are going to use my mom and dad to minister to my son, to witness to my son....all under the guise of flaking oatmeal. My son is away from You right now, but I know that Your perfect will is that he come back to You. I can talk till I'm blue in the face...I can set all kinds of examples, and walk that straight and narrow, but unless You intervene...unless You, through the power of Your Holy Spirit, intervene in his heart, there's nothing I can do. So that is my prayer this morning Father God...that You would intervene in his heart...opening his spiritual eyes that he might see Your love, Your truth, Your salvation. May that little grain, as it's flaked and broken, bringing forth a wealth of nutrients and vitamins, represent this work that You are doing in my son's life...feeding him spiritually, snatching him from the enemy's grasp. I am his mama, You gave him to me all those years ago, and in turn, I gave him back to You. I have had brilliant successes in my parenting and heart wrenching failures, but You alone are God, and I trust You to bridge that gap and bring my son safely home.

 

And Father, You have laid a burden on my heart...a direction I see You taking me. It is an area that I've never professionally ever done, and it leaves me feeling very inadequate and unqualified. But, just as I have recognized in the past, when You've called me to do certain things, I see You doing that again, right now. I've told You that if You truly want me to walk in this direction, that first and foremost, You will have to pave the way. Not only that, if this truly is a calling from You, then You will have to birth Romans 6, 7 and 8 into my heart and my life. I sometimes wonder why I do certain things, and right now is one of those times...I have said to You, "if this is the direction You want me to go, then You will have to birth Romans 6, 7 and 8 into my heart and mind, otherwise I'm not going to go". I have sensed Your Spirit laying on my heart, "try Me", so Father, I am willing to step out in faith, without having everything organized or everything I need, and will try You...I will trust You, leaving whatever outcome, in Your hands, not mine.

 

Pour out Your Spirit over this study today. May our eyes be opened to Your spiritual truths, because You have given them out of love and sacrifice through Your Son Jesus.

 

I love You Father, I really, really do.

 

In Jesus Name I pray,

 

 

 

12. So that the Law indeed is holy, and the Commandment holy, and righteous, and good.

 

13. Did then that which is good become death unto me? Banish the thought! But sin, that it might appear as sin, by working out death to me through that which is good; - that through the Commandment sin might become exceeding sinful!

 

14. For we know that the Law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

 

15. For that which I am working out, I do not own: for not what I am wishing this am I doing: but what I am hating - this I am practicing.

 

16. But if what I am not wishing, I am practicing, I am consenting unto the Law that it is right.

 

17. So, therefore, no longer is it I that am working it out, but sin which is dwelling in me.

 

I'm also going to put these verses in the Amplified Version because I like the way it lays it out:

 

12. The Law therefore is holy, and [each] commandment is holy and just and good.

 

13. Did that which is good then prove fatal [bringing death] to me? Certainly not! It was sin, working death in me by using this good thing [as a weapon], in order that through the commandment sin might be shown up clearly to be sin, that the extreme malignity and immeasurable sinfulness of sin might plainly appear.

 

14. We know that the Law is spiritual; but I am a creature of the flesh [carnal, unspiritual], having been sold into slavery under [the control of] sin.

 

15. For I do not understand my own actions [i am baffled, bewildered]. I do not practice or accomplish what I wish, but I do the very thing that I loathe [which my moral instinct condemns].

 

16. Now if I do [habitually] what is contrary to my desire, [that means that] I acknowledge and agree that the Law is good (morally excellent) and that I take sides with it.

 

17. However, it is no longer I who do the deed, but the sin [principle] which is at home in me and has possession of me.

 

The rvbv writes regarding verse 12: "The Law is holy, and the Commandment holy, and righteous and good - Here Paul positively refutes the charge that he dishonored God's Law. Nay, more, the Commandment (entole), the direct application to him of the Law, with its fatal consequences to himself, to his self-hopes, he defends. This is the mark of a saint: he upholds God, and condemns himself.

 

Verse 13: But now that he answers the further question: Did then that which is good become death unto me? And again his answer is, Banish the thought! But it was indwelling sin that wrought death to me, - using indeed, that which was good. Through the Commandment,, thus, Sin was shown to be sin. The more fully and widely the Law resolved itself in new and fresh commands to Paul's soul, the more intense and desperate became the indwelling Sin's horrid opposition to it. Thus was Sin's hideous contenance seen in full! It became exceeding sinful!

 

In general, we may say that in verses 14 to 17, the emphasis is upon the practicing what is hated, - that is, the inability to overcome evil in the flesh; while in verses 18 to 21, the emphasis is upon the failure to do the desired good, - the inability, on account of the flesh, to do it right."

 

Thus the double failure of a quickened man either to over-come evil or to accomplish good - is set forth. There must come in help from outside, beyond himself! This, of course, is the indwelling Spirit, as the eighth chapter so vividly portrays.

 

In narrating in particular the account of his great struggle in verses 14 to 23, we find the apostle arriving at three definite conclusions.

 

First, in doing what he is not wishing, but practicing what he is hating, his conclusion is: "If what I am not wishing, that I am doing, I am consenting unto the Law that it is right." Verses 14 to 16.

 

Second, It is indwelling sin, and not his real self, that is working out this evil: "But if what I am not wishing, this I am practicing, no longer is it I that am working it out, but on the contrary, sin which dwelleth in me." Verses 17 to 20.

 

Third, There is the terrible revelation of a positive Law (or settled principle) of sin in his members, defeating him despite his inward delight in the Law of God: - "bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members." Verse 23.

 

For we know that the Law is spiritual: But I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I am working out, I do not own: for not what I am wishing this am I doing: but what I am hating - this I am practicing. (The apostle does not say, "We know that the Law is spiritual and we are carnal." Had he done so, it would have been to speak of Christians, as such, in their proper and normal condition."

 

"Romans Seven is not the present experience of anyone, but a delivered person describing the state of an undelivered one. A man in a morass does not quietly describe how a man sinks into it, because he fears to sink and stay there. The end of Romans Seven is a man out of the morass showing in peace the principle and manner in which one sinks in it" (Darby).)

 

The Law is spiritual: but I am carnal - "Spiritual" may include:

 

1. Addressed to man by God, who is "spirit";

2. To "the spirit of man that is in him" (I Cor. 2:11); Therefore:

3. Consisting of communications adapted to and only understandable by beings of a spiritual realm or sphere.

4. "Spiritual," also, in the moral sense; holy because communicated by a holy God.

 

Thus Law is spiritual.

 

But I am carnal: Paul speaks of himself here as he is by nature. He does not say body-ish (sema, body, as opposed to pneuma, spirit) but "carnal": The word sarkinos, translated "carnal," comes from the root, sarks, "flesh."

 

1. If Paul had been speaking of himself before being quickened, he would have used the word natural: "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God" (I Cor. 2:14).

 

2. "Carnal" is not used to describe an unregenerate person, but a Christian not delivered from the power of the flesh: "I, brethern could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ" (I Cor. 3:1).

 

3. In this connection, note that while Paul's condition at the time of this struggle was that of being carnal, there are those that are spiritual: "He that is spiritual judgeth all things" (I Cor. 2:15). "Ye who are spiritual, restore" (Gal. 6:1).

 

4. Therefore, by the word "carnal" Paul was describing a state out of which there was deliverance.

 

We know that carnal, sold under sin - is evidently meant by the apostle in this fourteenth verse to indicate the state of human nature as contrasted with God's holy spiritual Law.

 

Sold under sin: This is slave-market talk: and it describes all of us by nature. Instead of being spiritual and therefore able to hearken to, delight in and obey God's holy spiritual Law, we are turned back, since Adam sinned, to a fleshly condition, our spirits by nature dead to God, and our soul-faculties under the domination of the still unredeemed body. Now Paul, tthough his spirit was quickened; and his inward desires, therefore, were toward God's Law; found to his horror his sstate by nature "carnal," fleshly, "sold under sin." How little humanity realizes this awful, universal fact about man - "sold under sin"!

 

"Sold under sin" is exactly what the new convert does not know! Forgiven, justified, he knows himself to be: and he has the joy of it! But now to find an evil nature, of which he had never become really conscious, and of which he thought himself fully rid, when he first believed, is a "second lesson" which is often more bitter than the first - of guilt!

 

For that which I am working out, I do not own [as my choice]: for not what I am wishing this am I doing, but what I am hating, this I am practicing. (Three Greek verbs expressing conduct are used in these verses: 1. prasso,do; 2. poieo, practise, make a business of; 3. katergadsomai, work out to a result (whether by personal choice or nature). By translating literally we can better get the vivid sense of the original.)

 

We must constantly remember throughout this struggle that it is not a description by the apostle Paul of an experience he was having when he wrote this Epistle! but an experience of a regenerate man before he knows either about indwelling sin, or that he died to sin and to the Law which gives sin its power; and who also does not know the Holy Spirit, as an indwelling presence and power against sin. God let Paul have this experience. And now writes about it that we may read and know all the facts of our salvation: not merely of the awful guilt of our sins, and our forgiveness through the blood of Christ; but also of the moral hideousness of our old selves; and our powerlessness, though regenerate, to deliver outselves, from "the law of sin" in our members.

 

Therefore Paul said that in that struggle he found himself "working out" a manner of life he refused to "own" - to admit as his real choice. For, he says, Not what I am wishing, that am I practicing. The word "wish" or "desire" is not quite strong enough for the Greek word here, (thelo); but the word will is too strong; for "will" has come in English to have the element of carrying a purpose through; which Paul was unable to do. His holy wish never mounted the throne of I will.

 

Verse 16: But now he gains a further step: But if what I am not wishing, I am practicing, I am consenting unto the Law that it is right. The wicked man does what he is wishing; and is willing to condemn God's Law if it interferes with him. But Paul cries in this struggle, "I have just discovered that I am not at all in my heart opposing the Law; but am in my heart of hearts consenting that it is right." And that is a very real step. In the matter of forgiveness, the thief on the cross took that step, in saying to his fellow, "We receive the due reward of our deeds." And Paul, forgiven but undelivered, cries, "The Law is right! My heart consents to God's Word and God's Way, - however far I am from following it! And now he pursues his advantage:

 

So therefore, no longer is it I that am working it out, but sin which is dwelling in me.

 

Verse 17: "No longer I!" That was a wonderful discovery! For a forgiven Saul, who had gone on in joy awhile without inward trouble, it was indeed a terrible awakening to become again convicted - not now of sins, but of indwelling sin, of a hateful power that seemed one's very self - but was really "our old man." (For, though our old man was crucified with Christ, put in the place of certain, though not instant death - we find, though we have "put him off" (Col. 3:9) we must "put away," as to every thing of the former life, "the old man" (Eph. 4:22). And, to be put away, he must be discovered to us, and this is what is so vividly set before us in this struggle. Note, it is never said the old man is dead, but that we died. We were federally identified with Christ, and passed on with Him into burial, and now share His Risen life. The old man is not to be "counted dead" (as some very dear brethren have put it): but to be counted crucified - his place being there only.) But he is making discoveries about himself - amazing things, brought out for the first time in Scripture. He is going much further than "consenting to the Law that it is right" (verse 16); for now, instead of being completely overwhelmed by this holy, righteous Law; he arrives at (and writes down for us!) a conclusion that is daring: Since I am doing what I am not wishing, there must be another and evil principle working within me. For it is not my real self that is working out this evil, but sin which dwelleth in me. An unwelcome, hateful presence!"

 

Watchman Nee comments on several verses. In verse 14 he comments on "For we know" and writes "The inward, subjective consciousness." He also comments on the word "spiritual" in this verse, stating: "The same in essence, nature, and substance as God, who is Spirit (John 4:24)." Finally, he comments on the word "fleshy" writing, "Paul saw that he was contrary to all that is portrayed by the law. It is spiritual, holy, righteous, and good; he was fleshy, common and defiled, unjust, and evil."

 

In verse 15, he comments on "For that which I work out, I do now own/acknowledge" and states: "Literally, 'do not know, i.e., do not acknowledge, do not approve of. Paul did not allow, approve of, or acknowledge his wrong action, for it issued from his flesh, which served the law of sin against his mind and against his will."

 

In verse 17, he comments on the word "dwells/dwelling" and states: "Literally, houses itself. Sin does not merely abide or remain within us for a time; it makes a home in us."

 

 

 

Heavenly Father,

 

It's taken me hours to get this study done today lol. Between supposed 'important interruptions', and the fact that my computer is really messing up today (I had to reboot it 3 times and it's still messing up lol), I've had to press forward to get it done. Thank You for today's study...as I typed it and read, I realized that these particular verses today, are exactly where I have been stuck at for a while now spiritually. From the moment I started doing this Romans study, I have looked forward to getting through all the preceeding verses, to arrive at this point because this is where I'm at...this is what I need to learn. So Father, I ask, in my heart and publicaly, that You would birth this knowledge, this understanding, this truth in my life...for Your glory.

 

And Father, in the days to come, the enemies hits are sure to come. May Your hand of protection and preservation be over this study.

 

I trust You, I love You.

 

In Jesus Name I pray,

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Good morning, Darlene,

 

First of all, I just want you to know what a blessing this site is. Secondly, your prayer for your son really tugged at my heart. It is very much what I have been praying for my sons. They were brought up "in the nurture and admonition of the Lord" but right now they are not living as they should. But we have this promise from our heavenly Father that if we teach them His ways, when they are old they will not depart from them. One day as I was praying (and crying) for them, the Lord spoke to my heart that as much as I love my children, He LOVES THEM EVEN MORE. I knew God loved them, but more than I did?? As obvious as this should have been to me before, it wasn't, and at that moment I was truly able to release them to our Father. I looked back over the years and saw how He has protected them. Two of my sons were in the war and one came home with bullet holes in his uniform but without a scratch on his body. There were so many times they both could have been injured or killed but he brought them home safe. Now one of them has re-joined the Army and my first response was fear and dismay. But, as I remembered the "exceeding precious promises" of the Lord, my heart and soul calmed down and I know that it is and shall be well with him and with us all. "Hitherto, He has brought us this far", He will not forsake us now. God's timing is perfect and our sons will come "home".

 

 

God Bless you

Marsha

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Thank you for sharing that Marsha...and you're right...as much as we love our children, He really does love them more...He created them, He has a plan and destiny for their life and He sent His Son to die for them too.

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Darlene, I've not commented, but am reading the Romans study. I can't comment because I can't express these things in words as of yet. Thank you for your time. I read in my own Bible and love the familiarity of the pages and the columns and the binding...but sometimes it takes reading the Words in an unexpected place to draw one's attention. Words that have been read over and over and thought to be understood seem to change and become...more real? Something like that.

 

Heavenly Father, I ask that You finish the good work you have begun in Darlene. You've promised to do this, and it seems almost ridiculous to ask what You've already promised, but Father, there is such comfort in repeating Your words between us. Please make clear the paths you have ordained for Darlene.Give her courage and vision to not only walk on the water, but to walk right over the top of the quicksand...straight into Your arms and Your will. Make her heart like David's...desiring You amd Your Word and Your testimonies and Your precepts and Your will every step of the way to the final day of her life.

 

And please bring your son home to You.

 

Thank you, Father, that we can come to You. Where else can we go? You are all there is, the only help for us, the only comfort, our greatest joy.

 

In Jesus' name, amen

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