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WAGONS HO!- Preparation


Mt_Rider

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This is a Mormon list for travel's west to Utah. It takes into consideration that there were many going together just as we would be doing for this exercise.

 

Requirements for Mormons on their journey to Utah

 

 

 

1 strong wagon, well covered

 

2 or 3 good yoke of oxen, ages 4-10

 

2 or 3 good milk cows

 

1 or 2 good beef

 

3 sheep, if can be obtained

 

1000 pounds of flour or bread stuff in good sacks (corn meal ?)

 

1 bushel of beans (dried legumes)

 

100 pounds of sugar

 

1 good musket or rifle to each male over 12,1#powder,4#lead

 

1 pounds tea, 5 pounds coffee

 

A few pounds of dried beef or bacon

 

25 pound sack of whole grain

 

25-100 pounds farming and mechanical tools

 

Clothing and bedding per family, not to exceed 500 pounds

 

Cooking utensils, bake kettle, fry pan, coffee pot, tea kettle,

 

Tin cups, plates, folks, knives, spoons, pans, etc.

 

A few goods to trade with Indians

 

15 pounds iron and steel (for repairs?)

 

A few pounds of wrought nails

 

1 gallon alcohol

 

10 pounds apples, 5 pounds dried peaches, 25 pounds salt,

 

2 pounds pepper, 5 pounds soda, cayenne pepper,

 

1 pound cinnamon, 1/2 pound cloves

 

20 pounds soap

 

A good tent and furniture for each two families

 

1 or more sets of saw and gristmill irons to each 100 families

 

1 fish seine for each company, 4 or 5 hooks and lines

 

2 sets of pull(e)y blocks for crossing rivers to each company

 

2 ferry boats to each company

 

 

 

Each wagon to carry one ton without people or 2800 pounds with

 

them.

 

10 extra teams per company of 100

 

 

 

 

 

N.B. (?)-- In addition to the above list, horse and mule teams

 

can be used as well as oxen. Many items of comfort and

 

convenience will suggest themselves to a wise and provident

 

people and can be laid in season, but none should start without filling the original bill first.

 

 

:bighug2:

 

 

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Thanks mother for the list.

 

We have most of what is on the list on hand. Good thing we collect and use the 'old things'.

the animals we share own or can bater for from the Amsih - (and we both can hand milk a cow or goat) - so we are set there too.

 

We are also lucky that Michael likes to do things 'the old ways' as he has blacksmithed, plowed with a team of horses (1,2,4 and even 6!), can fix almost anything that may go wrong, even has some of the tools we will need to fix the wagon and wheels. More hand tools (and he uses them ) then you will ever need.

 

One of the Amish shop owners is even building a covered wagon for someone. We tried to get a photo but they couldn't pull it out of shop yet (we will keep tring)

 

So count us in - we are ready and packing things up for the trip.

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:bounce: Mother's back. Now this wagon train will get rolling..... And Cat's gonna get our 'edit' function button fixed so we can continue to pack........

 

Huh? Waddya mean I gotta unpack and start over.....I haven't even gotten past the animals & kitchen stuff. 'Course, that's my main area of concern. :P [MtR is signing up for the driving course with SIX oxen, not just four. Too much stuff! ]

 

 

 

Well, ok...considering that the pioneers got to sell off their civilized stuff in order to get more appropriate primitive stuff, I guess we'll follow that too. I guess I'll be leaving Great-Aunt P's dresser behind.

 

 

But I've got this idea that we need some specialized wagons. Gulfcoastthruth mentioned the WATER WAGON. I think the "financing backers" can manage a few more Special wagons. Like the Medical Wagon, Water wagon [cuz I know carrying enough water on each wagon used up a lot of their weight allotment too. I'd like to propose [since we are needing to establish our community from scratch] a Library/School wagon. {BOOKS!} We may have to call for volunteers to drive these extra wagons. :P Any other special wagons that the community wants to propose? For professions/needs we'll have once we get there?

 

 

Gulfcoast....about the axel grease. While trying to get my windmill to SHUT UP this weekend [my dad suggested WD40 and it worked..no more annoying SKREEK,SKREEK] I was actually thinking about our wagon wheels. I have an extra metal rim and center for a wagon wheel. The wood parts have just about rotted away tho. {not looking as 'decorative' as it did 10 yrs ago} I always kind wondered if it would come in handy.

 

 

Might sell some stuff an get extra mules/donkeys and pack saddles....cuz MtRider wants to take along too much stuff! :busted:

 

Seriously, IRL that WOULD be the hardest part for any Bug-Out, Evacuation, or Relocation for me during Crisis/Hard Times. Too much stuff. Weak point showing thru this mental exercise.

 

MtRider [back to sorting and packing..... ;) ]

Edited by Mt_Rider
mangled sentence..lol
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The 'edit' function is set at 24 hours. I did that because in the past we've had members get into a snit at the site and delete all their posts which then throws entire threads into a mass of confusion.

 

If you need, for this exercise, the edit function for a bit longer, I can change the permissions for you. Let me know.

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Darlene, would it work for us to quote reply to our own posts and edit it at that point? That would bring the new info forward as well as edit it....wouldn't it???? or not??? I'm as computer savy as an infant and some of them are more savy.... :huh:

:bighug2:

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Darlene, would it work for us to quote reply to our own posts and edit it at that point? That would bring the new info forward as well as edit it....wouldn't it???? or not??? I'm as computer savy as an infant and some of them are more savy.... :huh:

 

 

*****edited to see if it worked****** :D

:bighug2:

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Thanks for letting us know about the edit function, Darlene. I have wondered.

In threads with broken links would it make sense to contact the thread moderator with the correct links and have him/her edit them? I hate to have broken links in my posts.

 

End of thread derail... back to the wagon packing.

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I hate broken links too, Leah. LOL I feel like fixing ALL the smilies that didn't transfer from our last format. :rolleyes: OK, I'm detail-picky. ;) If anyone wants to PM me for an edit for their post on a broken link, I'd certainly be willing. [be patient....I WILL get to it... LOL ]

 

 

====================

OK, y'all.... We've got wagons to pack. Mother has a pretty good idea on Quoting Oneself and then change within the quote. Is that doable? Mebbe even better cuz we'd all know if someone edited their lists. I find other people's lists interesting and informative.

 

 

 

 

New DATA on our Wagon Trip:

 

1) With a good stiff wind in our 'sails', we should be arriving at our new home after two months of travel. .....ah....er, if anyone knew me IRL, you'd know that I DO seem to collect the UNEXPECTED EVENTS. :shrug: So better make sure you are prepared to be on the road longer if unexpected delays happen. ;)

 

 

2) If anyone else wants to join us, c'mon and start packing. If you are missing key items, wellllll, think of what you can "sell" for the money to buy your cow or whatever. [check Mother's Mormon List] But another alternative: I'd be willing to feed an extra body if they could take over the primary driving of our wagon. Might even throw in the first female goat born to one of my 4 does once we get there too. Any takers? Cuz DH might be needed for a medical thang and ....my stamina [lets face it] will not be so good for driving all day.

 

3) Did I hear that Micheal [AmishHomesteader] knows blacksmithing? As in just horseshoes or making stuff from iron/metals???? If so, I propose we also get him an occupation Special Wagon for blacksmith stuff. That Mormon list included hunks of metal too.

 

 

MtRider [ sheeeesh, I'm *trying* to get to my packing but.... I spent all day hand sewing repairs on a certain donkey's new coat! ]

Edited by Mt_Rider
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At one time I had done a series of articles for the Historic Village Museum that I worked for. I used them at various times as a basis for workshops and seminars as well. There is a perspective in them that gives some insight into getting ready to leave your home and family to travel in a covered wagon to the great unknown.

 

I posted them in the Fireside in case anyone would like to read them.

 

Here are a few more thoughts to get you thinking.....

 

One question I received often from women was a personal one. "How did women go to the bathroom when on the prairie or on the trail without outhouses?" :o My reply was...Long dresses and open crotched pantaloons were a wonderful invention..... So were chamber pots.....Porta Potties were not pulled along behind the wagons and emptied at each town. Now maybe that's more info than you needed but if we are going to try to make this realistic enough to understand the possibilities we need to be thinking all things through. Long skirts are really not practical on the trail or around a fire but they did have their uses...... :D

 

Just how much toilet paper can you get in a wagon? Do you know what leaves are safe to use as alternatives?

 

How many diapers can you wash and hang inside a wagon? Will they dry and if they do, will they be covered with trail dust? Is there an alternative?

 

What if someone gets ill on the trail? Will you have the ability to care for them? Medicines? What about their comfort? Have you ever been sick in a moving vehicle? You should try a wagon if you think that's bad.

 

Can you cook food over an open fire? What about doing so in the rain? In a storm? Do all your pots and pans have covers? Can you keep your salt and sugar and etc dry? Can you think ahead far enough to have 'something' for the kids who are crying with hunger and can't wait until the rain stops? Or perhaps it's a hungry DH that's in need of feeding despite the rain.

 

Did you think to bring along a hat? A wide brimmed hat? A rubber poncho? Rubber boots?

 

:D Okay, I'll quit for a while. Now I have to get my OWN wagon packed if I'm going along. I've experienced covered wagon living before. Not months but enough to make me realize that you can get by with a whole lot less than you think. Packing to MOVE to another area is a whole other experience I believe. Like Mt_R I'm tempted by so many things that I THINK I need but I know exactly how small a space a wagon contains.

 

By the way....Last year I taught Covered Wagon Living to our home schooled 7 year old GS. We 'furnished' a 1/12 scale replica covered wagon with miniatures we either found or made (am still finding things actually as this year we are doing a chuck wagon study). It was an experience for both of us and a whole lot of fun but it taught me that even using miniatures I couldn't get it all in..... ;)

 

:bighug2:

 

 

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"How did women go to the bathroom when on the prairie or on the trail without outhouses?"

 

I heard it was as simple as a blanket mounted on two sticks & two women friends to hold the screen ......after you'd walked a ways out so that the long line of wagons fore 'n aft couldn't see. B) Mebbe we can have one of those "Presto - now it's a circle and NOW it's a pop-up potty tent" things. I have one that is really a child's indoor tent [no floor, etc] but it's kinda short. But....such business in not done by ladies standing anyway.... lol MtRider is not really a willing candidate for long skirts. LOL I'd forget and try to leap up on a horse.... :P

 

 

Two things that can sometimes get set aside in harsh, primitive conditions: Sanitation and Modesty. :shrug: After enjoying marshmallow treats [one must lick one's fingers] around a dark campfire, I got a better view of my blackened fingers. Not all of it was burned marshmallow. I exclaimed: I'VE BEEN EATING WITH THESE FINGERS.... :yuk:

 

 

MtRider [ 'nuff gabbing and get to my packing list...]

Edited by Mt_Rider
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This is great! I've saved my Word file and am editing it, to make sure my bags are properly packed.

 

You've specified our weight limit, apx. 12,000 lbs. and the dimensions are 12' L x 4' W x 4' D x 11' H , to make a trip in about 2 Months. Mother has posted some wonderful information, :thumbs: that has caused me to re-think my packing. :whistling:

 

Since I am dragging DH along with me, we are talking about this and he has asked me a 1,000 questions, of which these are the only ones I haven't been able to provide the answers for so far:

 

Questions for this scenario;

 

1. Can we bring any of our modern conviences?

2. Can we salvage/barter/trade the rural, cities we pass?

3. What type of landscape do we need to traverse?

 

 

Gulfcoastruth, I saw your caravan! LOL!!! Even got to get a ride in one of the 'follower' vehicles, I'd run out of gas in one tank and the toggle switch was broken for my other tank and I needed to get 10 miles home, at night, to get my papa to help me remedy the situation. So, here I am in a dress :blink: and high heals, :0327: stuck in the middle of nowhere with a broken vehicle. The driver gave me a ride and told me of your wagon train adventure.

 

We've seen several wagon trains go through our area, including Teen Challenge convoys, I am so inspired by their teaching ethics. My DH & I have spent years of backpacking and taking teens with us for the 'back to our roots' adventures into the wilderness. I will admit, now days it is difficult to find any place that is free of man's hands.

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good...we'll likely need MrA's skills with all the hunting for meat and stuff we might do.

 

1) yes

2) prolly a few tiny communities but availability will be hit 'n miss

 

3) .....um, prairie, hilly forests, Mt.s, .....reading the history book for the answers. :laughkick:

 

...and before anyone asks, we'll end up in a good zone for growing but still seasonal. Late Nov for first frost. In our UNreality, we're leaving in early March to arrive by planting in May. Hoping not to run into any late snow. Spring rains will be bad enough with trying to get the wagons/teams thru the mud. That's one thing that could hold us up. Swollen creeks/streams is another. We have routed for bridges or barge passage for the rivers. [pssstt, Mother. What do you call those contrivances with a flat bed boat that hauls with a long rope across smaller rivers/streams. My mind is blank. ]

 

No hostiles except possibly thieves. There are *always* thieves and cutthroats in these adventures. ;)

 

 

 

MtRider

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a Library/School wagon. {BOOKS!} We may have to call for volunteers to drive these extra wagons.

 

Well I can't drive it as I will have my hands full but Lori wants to be the Librarian! And if you do take a wagon full of books that will help me out as she wants to take along her "Childrens Library" she has here (well over 100 + books). Seeing she works as a Librarian now it will be a good fit.

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3) Did I hear that Micheal [AmishHomesteader] knows blacksmithing? As in just horseshoes or making stuff from iron/metals???? If so, I propose we also get him an occupation Special Wagon for blacksmith stuff. That Mormon list included hunks of metal too.

 

ain't nothing to right home about , but

I can get by as they say with what we may need to get people back on the road. Only made a few shoes and at the time I would not have put them on a horse but? ya never know.

Have to get a new forge so we will be ready. There willl be enough 'metal' on the side of the road (busted wagons and stuff) that we can use for spare parts.

:AmishMichaelstraw:

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:cheer: Yea! A librarian AND the driver for the Library Wagon. AND children's books. It's all yours, Lori. I have hundreds of books..... :rolleyes: At least we can use light-weight plastic {waterproof} tote containers to pack them instead of adding the weight of wooden crates.

 

So Micheal will be picking up "spare parts" from other's discards. [sounds like a pack rat like me. lol ] Can you make hinges for our cabin doors when we arrive? Those arm thingies to swing the cooking kettle into/out of the fireplace? MrMtR has some farrier tools [chaps!] and knows a bit about ...putting a shoe back on. A bit about correct hoof angles and such. We need some blank shoes in various sizes to bring. [Wonder, IRL, what size my horse wears...and I ought to have a couple sets, JIC ] And a BIG box of horseshoe nails. At least the oxen aren't shod.

 

Good website Micheal listed. Also on same website were these pages. The first 2 are pictures of tools. If you haven't looked thru the Lehman's catalog or visited antique shops, you might want to take a look at the tools. Many of us own/have owned a lot of what is pictured or have seen our grandparents use them.

 

http://library.thinkquest.org/6400/tools.htm

http://library.thinkquest.org/6400/tools2.htm

 

This third one [copied here] is another list divided into categories. It lists the item and then the estimated weight. Sorry, the nice columns didn't transfer here. :shrug:

 

http://library.thinkquest.org/6400/supply%20list.htm

Supply List

Below are the supplies that a Pioneer family traveling west might take on their five-month journey by covered wagon. Pretend you are a pioneer and about to make a long journey to the frontier. Make a list of what you would take on the journey, keeping in mind that the wagon will carry 2,000 pounds. Compare your list with a friends.

Tools:

-ax 15 shovel 12 hatchet 9 hammer 7 hoe 3 anvil 150 grinding stone 75 animal trap 15 rope 4

Personal Items Pounds doll 2 jump rope 1 marbles 1 family Bible 2 books 2 hunting knife 1 bag of clothes 40 fiddle 2 snowshoes 8 rifle 10 pistol 7 first aid kit 3

Food Pounds flour 150 tea 10 salt 50 sugar 50 coffee 100 bacon 40 dried fruit 100 dried beans 100 cornmeal 10 spit peas 100 oatmeal 8 vinegar 25 pickles 50 dried beef 25 salt pork 5 assorted spices 5 barrel of water 350 vegetables 5

Household Goods Pounds coffee grinder 5 rug 40 bedding 20 mirror 40 dutch oven 70 butter churn 40 table and 4 chairs 200 piano 900 organ 2000 baby cradle 75 wooden bucket 10 bedpan 2 butter mold 1 rocking chair 50 pitcher and bowl 5 cooking stove 700 cooling utensils 2 stool 10 spinning wheel 80 lantern 4 clock 1 10 candles 1 set of dishes 40

 

 

 

 

{sigh}....guess I'm gonna have to leave the organ behind to save on weight.

 

:laughkick: They are predicting a 5 month trip whereas we are simply traveling for 60 days...hopefully. :)

 

 

MtRider [bringing the kitchen sink tho...aka: laundry tub :D ]

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:cheer: Yea! A librarian AND the driver for the Library Wagon. AND children's books. It's all yours, Lori. I have hundreds of books..... :rolleyes: At least we can use light-weight plastic {waterproof} tote containers to pack them instead of adding the weight of wooden crates.

 

Driver?

where you thinking lori would drive?

well thats out.

and the totes can be turned on their sides when we get 'there' as 'Library book shelves' until the school/Library/Church get built.

:AmishMichaelstraw:

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So Micheal will be picking up "spare parts" from other's discards. [sounds like a pack rat like me. lol ] Can you make hinges for our cabin doors when we arrive? Those arm thingies to swing the cooking kettle into/out of the fireplace?

 

can do !

 

I done that kind of thing before. Even made some out of tin cans and nails(hinge pins) for smaller projects. S hooks, door handles, pot spiders,boot scrapers,etc. I'm your man.

I love making things for around the homestead here out of 'found' objects.

 

:AmishMichaelstraw:

PS side bar-

when people ask me if I could time travel where do I want to go?

I always tell them just this side of the big moutains on the Oregon Trail with a empty wagon heading east. Why?

so I can pick up all that great stuff people left behind by the side of the trail and bring it home - to use!

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:cheer: Yea! A librarian AND the driver for the Library Wagon. AND children's books. It's all yours, Lori. I have hundreds of books..... :rolleyes: At least we can use light-weight plastic {waterproof} tote containers to pack them instead of adding the weight of wooden crates.

 

Driver?

where you thinking lori would drive?

well thats out.

and the totes can be turned on their sides when we get 'there' as 'Library book shelves' until the school/Library/Church get built.

:AmishMichaelstraw:

 

Oops....guess I read that wrong. Lori volunteering for librarian position..not driver. LOL So we still need Special Wagon drivers. See how complex these things can get? Especially if it's a "colonization" trip to a brand-new location without a town/community already set up.

 

lol on your collecting stuff and heading East. Use that time-machine to transport treasured antiques to our era and you'd have a mint.

 

 

MtRider [need drivers..... Help wanted. ]

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idea....................

 

Can we find someone who can't read but can drive? if they promise to drive the Library Wagon Lori and I will teach them to read (and write their name) along the way. Maybe someone homeless near the starting point of our trip? The rest of the company can take turns feeding them (drivers)

:AmishMichaelstraw: i

 

Did You all leave without me?

 

nobody has posted for 4 days!

 

I have a photo I am tryiing to post that will let you know what we have been up too?

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I was thinking the same thing Michael so have decided to post a part of my list instead of trying to get it all together. I sure wouldn't want anyone to leave me behind. :o

 

Those of you who know me probably will be amazed to have me say this but,,,,I'm glad we can bring along modern inventions. I have always opined that combining the best of both worlds (past and present) would be the only way to survive in today's world.

 

 

 

To get an idea of what modern items we might want to take I consulted with our 7 YO GS. Some of you will know that we help to home school him, teaching history and science two days a week. Last year we did a whole curriculum on covered wagon travel and living complete with outfitting a 1/12-scale wagon. We often had to make our own ‘to scale’ supplies so he’s pretty knowledgeable about what needs to go in them. He recommends that we bring along our small solar panels, gel cell batteries, and a few solar lights. Now I can think of all kinds of things we might use that set up for but he says that we need it because “it gets mighty dark in the wilderness and we might want that ‘comfort’”. (yes, he does talk that way and he’s more than just a little afraid of the dark). Now, admittedly, that solar set up might not last a long time, and it would have to be packed extremely well to make the trip but he’s right. So many people, especially those coming from an urban setting, have any clue how dark it can be at night in the wilderness. Have you ever looked out your window and NOT seen a light in the distance?

 

 

 

Most of us have flashlights and even, if you are like me, wind up ones that will last a long time into the future. We have lanterns and lamps but they are dependent on fuel. We can make all sort of lights as well, like the grease lamps or the vegetable oil lights but they also are dependent on fuel. Candles are also a possibility but they need substances as well and the truth be known, most of them are going to give a meager light at best in a vast wilderness of darkness. A good experiment is to go into a large totally dark room, devoid of ALL light sources. If the room is small like a bathroom or closet you will be perfectly comfortable with the light from a flashlight or even an oil lamp. If that room has a mirror in it, so much the better. BUT if you use a large room and you depend on say just a candle you are going to find that it’s pretty difficult to see farther than right in front of you. Now compare it to the only light in MILES!!!

 

 

 

Like AH, I have a ton of historic items to bring along but the first “modern” convenience I’m putting in our wagon will be that small solar system. Not just for comfort either. That light might prove invaluable if a medical emergency comes up in the future. I have a half dozen or better 12 volt items that could be used with the system but I’ll be very selective of those before adding them. I will be adding the 12-volt battery charger (we have a solar one for charging small batteries as well) and a couple of portable battery packs. That would allow us to make the light or whatever, portable. As our battery packs also have inverters we would be able to run some electrical (110) items as well. Even if the system didn’t last forever, at least we’d have it until we got more inured to the lifestyle.

 

More coming.

:bighug2:

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Trying to list things Mt_Rider suggested. I'll add more about what we are bringing along soon.

 

Skills:

 

As skills go, I have a few, but am more jack of many trades than master of one. (I suspect that Michael is that way as well) (by the way, I just caught the connotation of the assumed names AH, LOL)

 

I have a lot of years in teaching open fire cooking. I have also taught pioneer daily life skills, including making "do" with what we have, Herb lore and usage, food preservation in the past, old ways of producing light, staying warm, doing laundry, cheese making, and more.

 

DH and I and our kids did wildlife rescue (27 years of doing it) and the knowledge of wildlife habitats, how they react in given situations (not always possible as they can be unpredictable), and etc might be valuable.

 

I have some Fiber crafts knowledge (knitting, crochet, weaving, knitting board, spool weaving, and more).

 

I have knowledge and skills in small livestock handling and rearing, especially the old ways, and have some knowledge in herbal remedies for them.

 

I have lots of gardening experience, and some wild crafting knowledge.

 

I also have organizational and people handling skills, as it’s what I did for years for a living.

 

I have also, as part of a life long love of pioneer living and a desire to learn first hand what it took to do so, lived for months at a time as our pioneer ancestors did. That is, without electricity, with no running water except what ingenuity rigged up, with only wood heat and cooking, and etc. They did NOT have it easy!

 

What I DON'T have is the physical ability to carry out some of these skills as I did in the past. What is it they say about those who can do; and those who can't teach! I'm probably closer to the teaching end than the doing end.

 

DH will be a great asset but in ways not specific most likely. He is a jack of many trades and can repair almost anything. He is a good make do carpenter. Even at our age (retired) he can outwork many younger than he. His middle name is Ingenuity, LOL. He is also a very good hunter.

 

Hopefully we'll have family coming with us. DD can do almost everything I can plus she is excellent with numbers. GKs are all versatile and willing to help. One GSIL knows hunting inside and out. SIL can handle any farm livestock there is and can not only drive teams but also can farm using them. He can repair almost anything, including farm equipment of the old fashioned kind.

 

DS #2 (#1 is in Thailand and won't be coming along) can do almost anything with metal, mechanics, and he is named after his father's middle name. LOL

 

Youngest son is an excellent and avid hunter and sportsman, welder, mechanic etc. His children, while young, are all willing workers. DDIL has an active mind and can shoot as well as any in the family.

 

I hope there are some things in this list of abilities that will make us good trail mates and useful members of our new community.

 

:bighug2:

Edited by Mother
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