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Mother

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Just putting my .02 cents worth in here as someone who has an extreme, let me say that again...EXTREME fear of bridges and rivers and such, there would be NO WAY I could float across that overflowing river in a wagon lol. :0327::0327::0327::0327: Even if it meant my life, I still don't know if I could do it. So, that leaves us with one less option LOL... I would vote to give it one more day and see if the rain stops, but we would move back some away from the rivers edge. In that time, I think I would be looking at our supplies and trying to see if we had enough to make it out on our own for a few weeks without getting the resupply. If so, then I imagine we might agree to head south with others going that direction (is there any??) and start looking for our homestead. We would agree to come back in a few weeks to file our claim, make our mark on the map and pick up our supplies (those were supposed to be at the lodge right???).

 

But that is just an idea, it can be changed a little or a lot or completely scrapped lol.

 

Q

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((((Quiltys))) I have claustrophobia so I can emphasize with you. BUT,,, what are you going to do if we wait and the river goes down to normal? Will you be able to 'ford' it then? You will still have to cross that river or the new bridge if we manage to get it built if and when you ever come to the lodge?

 

Ummm I hate to be bearer of bad news,,,,but unless the supplies we all ordered (did you order any to be sent to that last post office?) finally got to the ranch and unless the mule (pack) train is able to get to the valley with them,,, there isn't going to be a lot of supplies. Unless, of course, the B's have stocked up the Lodge and are going to be sharing those with us. (I hadn't heard that but it very well could be. I know that the B's had supplies, that didn't come, they were going to be picking up at the ranch too but I'm not sure what they were....Might have to reread some of our past posts to see if it says)

 

HOWEVER,,,there are (or will be soon) a lot of edible wild spring plants in the valley as well as game for hunting. We'll be able to 'find' them if we know what we are looking for.

Does any of that help LOL?

 

:bighug2:

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Depending on the flow, it could be explored. IRL, the river we regularly dive/swim in weekly, flows 1600 - 2000+ cfs (cubic feet per second) with water temperatures in the 40's to 70's, depth ranges from 1' to 65'.

 

If a shallow area could be found that has a good foundation - pebble bottom with solid shore lines, the only danger would be the flow. Generally, if the water is shallow the flow is intense and we would have to be concerned about the animals or small carts being swept away.

 

Interesting... to say the least.

 

:unsure:

 

 

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What about visability? Would you be able to see with the debris moving in the water?

 

This river might be colder than that if the water was moving through snow yet, though it is coming from a northeasterly direction which would mean it's had a lot of sun on the area which might warm it.

 

What about safety? Would you use a safety rope or? Can you tell I know next to nothing about diving?

 

IRL would you consider diving a river that was over it's banks?

 

Would you take YOUR wagon across even if the water was deep enough to 'float' it? (knowing it was designed with that possibility in mind?)

 

This is an intriguing thought that never crossed my mind. :rolleyes:

 

:bighug2:

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((((Quiltys))) I have claustrophobia so I can emphasize with you. BUT,,, what are you going to do if we wait and the river goes down to normal? Will you be able to 'ford' it then? You will still have to cross that river or the new bridge if we manage to get it built if and when you ever come to the lodge?

 

Ummm I hate to be bearer of bad news,,,,but unless the supplies we all ordered (did you order any to be sent to that last post office?) finally got to the ranch and unless the mule (pack) train is able to get to the valley with them,,, there isn't going to be a lot of supplies. Unless, of course, the B's have stocked up the Lodge and are going to be sharing those with us. (I hadn't heard that but it very well could be. I know that the B's had supplies, that didn't come, they were going to be picking up at the ranch too but I'm not sure what they were....Might have to reread some of our past posts to see if it says)

 

HOWEVER,,,there are (or will be soon) a lot of edible wild spring plants in the valley as well as game for hunting. We'll be able to 'find' them if we know what we are looking for.

Does any of that help LOL?

 

:bighug2:

 

 

LOL I had ordered a truck load of supplies from the mayors wife. The truck got hi-jacked then re sent to the Rockin J. That's what is supposed to be delivered to the valley, it's all salt, flour, sugar,coffee, etc. Just the basics that we cannot produce ourselves and are so needed, esp. the salt for curing meats. Yep, was counting on the greens too in the spring for food. Like polk weed for a spring tonic. Fiddleheads for a real treat like we had back on the trail...stuff like that. I know the pack mule train had all been arranged as we left the Rockin J. It would be nice to see it arrive, or at the very least, coffee, salt and those things that we are unable to ever produce ourselves.

 

I did buy ours while I was in town that day at her store. Plus we have the packages from Rockin J we picked up but never opened too. What I had ordered on the truck was also for us but mostly for the rest of you though. Like the medicines too that I will need to have (antibiotics and such) to give out if needed in a worst case type thing. I can't remember what else I had wrote in there that I ordered LOL. It really wasn't that much, just most food staples really. Oh yep, and we will be fishing too. :D;) So definately need the salt even to smoke it with.

 

LOL all this is kind of a mute point right now anyways...we have to get to the lodge first hehehe.

 

If the water is calm and there is a bridge, then I can cross a river (eyes closed). I can do a boat but only as a last resort and the water is calm lol. Oh my, in unreality I could bite the bullet and cross the river in a wagon. I just got so freaked out by the thought of it, even in unreality lol. Does that give you any idea how I am in real life?!LOL...yep, it's bad. I'm sorry. :wub:

 

:bighug2:

 

Hey if Annarchy was to dive the river and find shallows...could a rope be rigged from one side of the river to the other as kind of a guide wire type thing? Maybe we could cross where it isn't too deep that way? Mother I'm with you on tying a rope around the gal before she gets in the water!!

 

Q

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Mother don't you know the #1 rule about water and modes of transportation...they don't mix...LOL You need to watch the news they tell you all the time that if there is water across the road do not drive in to it you never know what is underneath or how deep it really is...

 

Would I cross a swollen river even in URL...nope not gonna happen. Sorry call me chicken but if it is running strong and way out of banks I will sit and wait.

 

However, I was thinking about trying to cross over the top of the dam, you know sort like the Hoover Dam? Any idea what the dam is made of? Is it like a beaver dam and sticks and stone or is it an earthen dam made of sod? Is it wide enough for a wagon?

 

Even though the river is out of banks could we closed the dam long enough to get across on the south side? Or maybe that is what is wrong the flood gates need to be opened so the river can flow and then maybe we can cross up here?

 

Right now we are at the Trappers cabin and headed south. We are going to see what is south along the river.

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I have enjoyed these comments immensely the last couple of days. I chuckle though and want to say..."Oh Ye of little faith" Did you actually think we would let any of you get hurt on this crossing after working so hard to get you here? :D

 

(MT3B. I have lived through numberous floods, even living in our raised home through two of them for weeks as the water receded before moving. I learned how to row a boat in my front yard LOL. I would never drive my car through flood waters as I've seen what is left of roads afterwards but I would not hesitate to take a Conestoga across that river as they are made to be like boats, that is why the smaller verison was often called a "prairie Schooner"...not only do they float but the oxen and horses can swim. As long as their is no snags to grab them they are a lot safer than a car that would difinitely sink...I was apprehensive about my camper wagon but not my Conestogas.)

 

It was wonderful to see how you each handled this situation though. Q and MT3B fearful of the crossing, Annarchy calmly assessing the situataion. We aren't sure how CeeGee or others are going to handle the crossing yet but I suspect it will be with grace and prayer as we've all been doing all along.

 

The lodge will be our focal point from now on and our meeting place. Either I or Mt.R will try to give a description of it so we will all be on the same page with it. Some of us will be setting up a temporary camp there that we will use as an anchor as we search for our own homesteads. (If you want to join us there but the river is still up, give us a shout and we'll come help you across :) ) Of course, we can always find some of the B's group there as well. The library will be there, the medical building is there, and hopefully our church will be there too.

 

We can leave messages for each other at the lodge once we get moved to our homesteads. We can meet there for Sunday Services if CeeGee and family are willing, or she can become "circuit rider" if she wants. We'll be bringing up some 'decisions' the group has to make soon and from time to time after that. We will occassionally be helping each other, perhaps with a barn raising (or even cabin raising), building bridges, harvesting perhaps as well. We might be throwing some 'adventures' from time to time also just so you don't get complacent on your homesteads and get careless. (remember, you may have some of the B's group homesteading near you if you need them)

 

Other than that, we want to hear ALL about your homestead. Not all in one post but rather daily or as often as you can 'post' in your journals. Try to 'teach' as you journal so that others can 'learn' from what you say. (Why did you place your garden where you did and how did you clear the area, what did you use for hinges on your doors, etc.) but don't hesitate to also journal the normal everyday life you are leading. What are you eating? How are you keeping things cold? or hot? How much work is it to haul wood? We want to know about the challenges and how you overcame them. We want to know about your joys and your disappointments. We want to know your thoughts and your ideas and most of all, we want to be able to 'see' the life you are living.

 

Great work Wagoneers, I'm really looking forward to this thread. It's going to be the best ever. :woohoo::D

 

:bighug2:

Edited by Mother
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And to add to what Mother said, if you need a nurse just write me in somehow. I always read what everyone has written before I start my post. So it wont be any big deal to pick up on what you have written and incorporate it into my post also. Or you can pm me any time and ask questions, etc...my brain is here for the picking. LoL...sorry, that sounded kinda gross didn't it? :blush::girlneener:

 

I don't know about the rest of yall, but I am really looking forward to this part of our story too. I can't wait to see how everyone sets up and begins to work their homesteads. Oh, and the barn raising's sure to come soon too! What fun that will be...

 

Q

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I'm not even sure myself WHERE we are at MT3B. It's been a bit of a roller coaster ride for me the last couple of days. I'm working at a sort of disadvantage with Mt_R not feeling real well yet (she could use some prayers by the way)

 

I'll TRY to get those of us who crossed the river to the lodge as soon as I can and maybe even through the night (short sleep? Groan!) today yet. That should put us on the schedule of those who went south.

 

Quiltys, That is a wonderful idea. We can do that with the others too, CGA if she joins us and Mr.Mt._R, and others who have a specialty as well.

 

We can send the message by 'pony express' that way....(or our equivelant of it anyway) :24:

:bighug2:

 

 

 

 

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Phew, got us all safely to the lodge, fed, animals squared away and into bed. :D

 

More fun tomorrow I'm sure.

 

:bighug2:

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What about visability? Would you be able to see with the debris moving in the water?

 

This river might be colder than that if the water was moving through snow yet, though it is coming from a northeasterly direction which would mean it's had a lot of sun on the area which might warm it.

 

What about safety? Would you use a safety rope or? Can you tell I know next to nothing about diving?

 

IRL would you consider diving a river that was over it's banks?

 

Would you take YOUR wagon across even if the water was deep enough to 'float' it? (knowing it was designed with that possibility in mind?)

 

This is an intriguing thought that never crossed my mind. :rolleyes:

 

:bighug2:

Vis: We're used to 2-5', most of the time you can see the debris in the water, as long as you are alert to it. We've known people who were not and got decked.

Water Temps: Cold is cold, with the wet suit, you can generally handle it, however, the duration must be considered to prevent hypothermia.

Safety: If you are alert to the currents, most running water will push you to the sides. People tend to freak out when they are being pulled along and try to swim up stream which wastes energy and increases the risk of drowning. The best option is to turn and swim with the current and head to the sides.

Flooded river: Yes, we have on several occasions. It can be treacherous if you are not alert. Never never dive head first in the water, always slowly submerge and look around. Look for trees, branches, and other crap that the water has picked up. That's where a wet suit can provide some protection from encounters with objects. Including the unexpected current forcing you into a rock outcropping.

 

Would I take my wagon across? Probably not if the water didn't subside. Again, the key is whether the bottom is stable enough to get a grip. Generally rivers tend to have a mucky bottom where it is deep and as it shallows out the water becomes swifter where rocks collect.

 

I would if the water was knee deep to waist deep, and then only pointed down stream to allow the flow help push the wagon along. Any shallower, considering the cfs, you could be swept away before you had a chance to get a good foot hold. Deeper would pose the same problem due to buoyancy.

 

Thank you very much for the rope. I would be useful if the current is too rapid. But I would hesitate tying it around me, instead, I would hold on to it and swim it across. There is the potential of the rope catching debris and pulling you under. (I always carry a sharp knife while diving.)

 

Since we've apparently crossed and headed in... I'm going to go read what you all posted today.....

:grouphug:

 

:happy0203:

 

 

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That's a facinating look into diving. Thanks Annarchy. I would have put you in that river to check it out but I would have been too worried. :hug3:

 

I wondered if that rope might be more hinderance than help. KNowing what the current will do to a rope, I was afraid it would entangle you though I know that deep sea divers use hoses and lines.

 

One thing that most everyone has been sort of skating around is the fact that these wagons were purposely built for floating. (Mt.R saw to that herself just for this scene LOL) Part of that is because it's such a foreign idea to most people. Vehicles don't float, only boats float!! These wagons are part both. In this case, if the river bottom was full of mud it would be an advangage to have them float/swim that area instead of try to drive/walk through it. It was how the pioneer managed it. They often had more trouble fording than they did floating. I did have them starting upstream and heading down to the other side. That gives the oxen or horses the same advantage that you would have as a diver. They go with the current and as long as the current is not too swift, they can stay ahead of the wagon using the current to propel them along with their swimming ability.

 

When our GS and I were studying covered wagons last year we had fun trying to "float" our 1/12 scale conestoga wagon in running water (the spring fed stream), in the pond, and on a hand built raft built to scale. Ours wasn't even water tight but it did amazingly well. We lost it the first time on the raft but didn't have it secured enough and it moved. The second time across went fine. It was not only fun but it was a great learning tool. We had done hours of research on them being used by the pioneers beforehand but that hands on experience was priceless.

 

I am in awe of the things that we've all been able to learn from these threads. I can just imagine what is to come.

 

Annarchy, will you and GS be 'diving' any of the rivers in the valley? I would love to hear what is there under those streams and lake. I would almost believe there would be a possibility of gold in that area (silver minds too) but of course, that wouldn't do any of us alot of good if there is nothing to buy with it. Is there other things that could conceivable be found? NO! Don't tell me, just let us know if you find something interesting, maybe that big wash pan I lost coming across. :D

 

:bighug2:

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One thing that most everyone has been sort of skating around is the fact that these wagons were purposely built for floating. (Mt.R saw to that herself just for this scene LOL) Part of that is because it's such a foreign idea to most people.

Sorry but maybe its you that is missing the point?

 

They were made 'to float' over calm water when they 'had' to cross a stream or river.

Would we have crossed that 'fast running' river in a row boat? NO WAY!

would we cross that river in anything that would 'float' and NOT be able to touch bottom so it didn't 'float' away uncontroled? No way!

*That is why we (and some others) didn't cross the River. PLus it was a lot easier to go south and scout out land (after you gave us the go ahead) then just sit there waiting. NOT to be the first ones to build cabins and claim the BEST land.

 

So some of us got land picked out and want to put in a claim? We are heading back to the Lodge to do that so what do we need to bring with us?

Lori and I are leaving the wagon and the animals behind at our 'site' and coming into 'town' with the buggy.

 

See ya all soon..................

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Michael...ummm did you mean for that last post of yours to go onto the story? I had to go back to the last page and make sure I wasn't posting a comment in the story LOL....

 

I just wanted to ask if anyone else is going south? If not I think we could write a few things into the story here like working out boundry lines and stuff with prospective neighbors? Seems like it would just add something to the story, like how even though we aren't in the wagon train any longer, we continue to work together to solve things that come up and help each other as now neighbors. What do yall think? mt3b? Mother? Beuller?

 

Q B)

 

 

PS...I also would like to know if it has to be a retangular shaped claim or can we use irregular but natural boundries?

Edited by quiltys41
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AH and Q, Mt_R has figured some of this out but I'm not sure when she will be up to posting, hopefully today. In the mean time I know that the idea was for each of you to write a description of your land and tell where it was located and that would be part of the 'deed' to the land (instead of the usual legal descriptions that are difficult to understand and we don't need for our purposes LOL).

 

I don't believe the land would have to be square or rectangle. It would most likely follow a natural boundry, as you said Q, if there is one. A river, a stream, a natural rock face, hot springs or natural springs, etc. As we've been told that we can 'find' those types of things on our land it will give us the luxury of writing them into our descriptions. If they are major things not on Michael's map they might have to be decided on but then perhaps he would be able to include them eventually on a revised map much like they did when exploring any wilderness for the first time.

 

You each get forty acres of land. That would be eighty acres for a couple. Just remember that on the map that is a very small area. If my figures are correct that would be one eighth of a square mile. (640 acres per square mile, divided by 80, should equate to 8 homesteads per square mile doesn't it?) There are 200 square mile all together in the valley.

 

That would make it unlikely that anyone would have a really close neighbor but I do like the idea of discussing the boundry lines with 'neighbors'. I would love to have neighbors nearby. So far we only have Mt_R and she's a few mile away. (anyone want to join us on that NE river? :) ) We have the Benefactor's group of unknown people that might concievably want to be in the same area if any of the writers aren't close enough. We can always use them as 'neighbors" couldn't we?

 

Speaking of B's people. I'd like to remind everyone that Mt_Rider mentioned the possibility that some of the readers might be enjoying this so much they'd like to join us. She suggested that they can always become one of the B's people and enter into the fun that way. I believe we'd all welcome more writers. :D

 

:bighug2:

 

 

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I don't believe the land would have to be square or rectangle. It would most likely follow a natural boundry, as you said Q, if there is one. A river, a stream, a natural rock face, hot springs or natural springs, etc. As we've been told that we can 'find' those types of things on our land it will give us the luxury of writing them into our descriptions. If they are major things not on Michael's map they might have to be decided on but then perhaps he would be able to include them eventually on a revised map much like they did when exploring any wilderness for the first time.

 

I like the idea of natural boundries. Q and I have been PMing back and forth working out the details of how we are going to divide that south east corner. So we are going to be neighbors YAY...boy I feel better having a nurse close by my guys are accident prone LOL.

 

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:D Smiling at MT3B. We'll have to swap once in a while. You have the nurse and I have the chiropractor. Our guys are accident prone sometimes too. :o:)

 

:bighug2:

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:D Smiling at MT3B. We'll have to swap once in a while. You have the nurse and I have the chiropractor. Our guys are accident prone sometimes too. :o:)

 

:bighug2:

 

 

LOL you 2!! Well if I could come up with a horse.... :rolleyes::whistling: I could ride a circuit once a week or so on a set day just to check on folks...that's after we get the homestead going. All bets are off on canning season though lol. It wouldn't take that long to ride by horse to check folks....might need an overnighter once in awhile, but I bet I could get a neighbor kid to stay with hubby for protection while I was gone...hey....lol.

 

Okay, so the land on the map will be a smaller parcel than what I was thinking. Guess that pond is going to have to turn into a small lake in the trees there so we can spread out enough to have some bare ground too and not all trees lol. I would probably be easier on Michael too for drawing it in on the map. Thanks Mother, you have been loads and loads of help! :bighug2:

 

Q

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Ok so I officially put my post up as to what we found in the south. It took two days to write...whew :0327: but I think I got everything covered. We are now back at the lodge asleep. We covered a lot of ground today.

Edited by mommato3boys
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Michael...ummm did you mean for that last post of yours to go onto the story? I had to go back to the last page and make sure I wasn't posting a comment in the story LOL....

 

 

 

OOOPS!

 

OK so I was up most of the night -

and then got caled to go out at the last minute and was rushing to get things posted before we had to leave?

Thanks for the heads up.

 

By the way I tried to make it look like it was a page from a journal? thats why it is 'underlined?

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