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Just When You Thought You Knew Everything About EMP


CoM

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Here is an excellent article on EMP. I know we are probably tired of reading about it but I am so glad I read yet another article. With the predicted possible solar flare threat coming up soon, it would be wise to read this article.

 

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html

 

Here is an audio program with an astrophisicist talking about the predicted solar flares.

 

Edited by CoM
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Nobody knows everything there is to know about this subject. Most "knowledge" on it is pure conjecture.

 

quote from the article:

"Some people have said that the long-term loss of the power grid would send us back to the 19th century. That belief is quite false because we have no 19th century infrastructure and very little 19th century knowledge. A long-term loss of the power grid would send us back at least 500 years."

 

"Because of the inevitability of a large solar superstorm, we have to accept the fact that the current electric power grid upon which our lives depend is only a temporary infrastructure. This temporary infrastructure has served us very well, and we now have entrusted our very lives to it.

The fact that the electric power grid began as a convenience, but has become a necessity for sustaining life, is both one of the most beneficial, and one of the most dangerous, facts of 21st century existence. We do not know how long the current power grid will last; but if it not replaced by a robust permanent infrastructure in time, hundreds of millions of people will die when the electric power grid collapses simultaneously in many countries. How such a collapse occurs is very well known, and the methods to either prevent it, or to have spare transformers in place to fairly quickly repair it, are also well known. Although these preventive measures would not be terribly expensive, they would take some time to put into place; and those things have never been done."

 

 

If it happens in mid winter, huge numbers will DIE in the northern states. If it happens in mid summer, huge numbers will DIE in the southern states!

 

Our homes are not built to be heated with fuels like wood or coal, and how would we supply it to so many anyhow. Our homes are not built to take advantage of natural cooling. In former yrs, anyone who could afford to do so, fled the cities for the countryside during hot weather. That wouldn't even be feasible now with such a large population. Where would they go?

 

Summer or winter, there will be no food deliveries and most places won't even have water.

 

We need to prepare our own homes for lack of power, water and resupply of food, but we need to get more proactive in pushing congress to DO something to harden the grid.

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Mountain Man "was" seriously looking for an older pickup that didn't rely on all the electronics & gadgets to start it and run it. But, you have the down side of needing to store gasoline to put in it's tank, and then somebody robbing you of your vehicle & gas. So, we're keeping our heads low on gasoline and propane storage, to fuel our RV's furnace & cook stove and our generators to charge our RV batteries. We just recently purchased two 100# propane tanks (120 pounts of gas) to further our efforts for "long term camping". We sell whatever we can get our hands on (that we don't need) to buy what we need.

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Takes electricity to pump gas/diesel and this country/world depends on fuel.

Takes energy to get it out of the ground as well as refining it. Those two items are heavily doted on.

 

No matter how one preps it will not be enough and and should the grid go completely down,

it is going to be a terrible shock to everyone.

I do not think anyone truly realizes just how much they lean on fuel and electricity.

 

For instance you work on the 200th floor and the grid goes down, no electricity for air

circulation, elevator, or lights or toilets.....

You are driving in the city and the traffic lights stop working.......

You are driving across country-stop to fuel up and the pump stops

You are in a store and the electric doors won't open (hopefully there is a manual override)

The days stay dark and stormy for weeks and solar chargers do not work.

 

 

Anybody else add to this?

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We may be two of those that other's call "dumb" to bug in...but that's exactly why we plan on doing it. We have our RV that is the ultimate BOV if we just absolutely have to go. There's going to be alot of people dying in the woods because they thought they could live off the land. There will be alot of people starving in the cities because they only set aside the "comfort" foods (the fancy buckets of gourmet meals for one year)t, or only "rice, beans & wheat" because they don't have ways to prepare it for consumption. I told MM that I refuse to buy "gourmet" foods for storage when I don't even cook that way now! The truth...store what you'll eat and eat what you store".

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Guess I'm pretty dumb too, Philbe. Bugging out is at the very bottom of my list. I have a roof over my head, food in the pantry, water jugs in the basement and TP in the closet. What more could I ask for? Well, a lot actually but all of my basic needs are right here and nothing short of a gas leak, a fire or tornado could make me think about leaving. I have food, shelter and clothing and I know what my chances would be if I had to walk away from home...0%

 

I'm not buying into the year in a bucket either. I dry my own food and make 'meals-in-a-jar/bag' to my liking. And probably at a fraction of the cost. I've noticed the 'bucket meals' rotate the same 4-5 meals. You better hope you like what they are serving because you are going to be eating a lot of the same thing day after day.

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(((((((Arby)))))))

 

I would think in a real meltdown situation the landlord would want the tenants s/he already knows and is comfortable with, to occupy the building and to help keep out thugs who tear up property just because they can. Have you changed your mind about NE.? That sounded like a good deal.

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NE would be last resort, its so dry there ( well they are about to flood from runoff from CO . ) And way too hot for me these days.

 

I am going through and sorting things. That is a good idea to suggest but she doesn't own the building. Probably not. Shes fickle as heck so unless she offers its probably not a good idea to ask. October would be last months rent. Gives me time to go find my spot and build it while the soil is still loose enough and collect down wood. Hopefully they would get the govt back up before the month's end then I just have a late fee of 25 $ , lol. Yea I know , having to go that rustic is a big hassle but its keeps me in an area Im familiar with somewhat at least. It will turn lives upside down if they pull this stunt. Hopefully they work things out but its only a delay til January then. ( which realllllllllly does not work around here. ) So I will take the lesser of two evils if its going to happen.

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Guess I'm pretty dumb too, Philbe. Bugging out is at the very bottom of my list. I have a roof over my head, food in the pantry, water jugs in the basement and TP in the closet. What more could I ask for? Well, a lot actually but all of my basic needs are right here and nothing short of a gas leak, a fire or tornado could make me think about leaving. I have food, shelter and clothing and I know what my chances would be if I had to walk away from home...0%

 

I'm not buying into the year in a bucket either. I dry my own food and make 'meals-in-a-jar/bag' to my liking. And probably at a fraction of the cost. I've noticed the 'bucket meals' rotate the same 4-5 meals. You better hope you like what they are serving because you are going to be eating a lot of the same thing day after day.

 

We don't even store alot of tp...just plenty of rags, if the grids down our toilet won't work anyway...so we'll be lining our thunder mug with kitty litter filled plastic bags and off to ??? it will go. Toilet paper is so high that you feel like you're wiping your fanny with white gold!

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I understand about the heat. I can't take it anymore either. If 'it' hits the fan here in the summer I'll have to do chores etc. either early in the morning or late at night then lay in the bathtub the rest of the time. Assuming I still have water. :sigh:

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I have one of those little camper type potties but if there is absolutely no water to flush with I've decided I'm going to drain the toilet, dry it and line it with a bag or two and use it. I mean, it's already there and sturdy. I haven't actually tried it so that might be wishful thinkin'.

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I have one of those little camper type potties but if there is absolutely no water to flush with I've decided I'm going to drain the toilet, dry it and line it with a bag or two and use it. I mean, it's already there and sturdy. I haven't actually tried it so that might be wishful thinkin'.

 

We also have camper potties; one that the lid sits on top of a 5-gallon bucket and then one that's on a "stand" and the "black bag" fits under it. They do work Jeepers. In a grid down, having some kitty litter at the bottom with help alot! We also have a portable shower that you can hang outside in the sun, get the water warm and take a shower (inside if you're drains are draining). We're fortunate to also have a "tent" that we can sit the potty in or hang the shower in.

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We already have low flush toilets in place. They don't really have to have water to flush because you push the lever and the flap opens and drops everything down. I pour water down them sometimes so the pipes flush out to the septic. Dont need it every time, but I can use wash or bath water for it.

 

 

In summer here, it frequently doesn't get much lower than 100 before dark. There are way too many insects out there to turn on an outside light and try to work. Of course the house won't be habitable in those temps.

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I wasn't sure who Philbe meant in reference to thinking SIP was dumb. :unsure: Assume she meant non-informed/non-preppers...but... :scratchhead:

 

I just want to make it clear for anyone who might be new to MrsS and new to prepping. Nobody here would think SIP is dumb. This is a topic we go over from time to time for those just beginning....

 

 

Here's the generally accepted Plan A for those of us here:

 

Never EVER become a refugee.............{unless you've run into so many barriers that it's your ABSOLUTE last chance of survival}

 

No one wants to do anything but SIP......{unless you've run into so many barriers that it's your ABSOLUTE last chance of survival}

 

But if some specific HUGE HOOEY would hits the WRONG FAN for your area [like wildfire, massive flood, local earthquake, too-much-violence, unending drought, etc], obviously most folks from here are prepared with at least some kind of Plan B...which includes moving quickly and HAVING A REASONABLY PREPARED PLACE TO GO. That's a Plan B. Anyone not having one of those risks running into one of the many barriers that life can toss your way.... Without Warning! Sometimes SIP will be deadly. At the point that SIP is a more deadly risk than BO, that's when we all plan to RELUCTANTLY leave our homes. Like in the RV like Philbe mentioned! :thumbs:

 

===============

New folks... SIP [shelter-in-place...staying in your prepared home] BO [bug Out....leaving for another specific location to survive better if forced to do so]

===============

 

 

Philbe's other point is good to bring up again too. We've had some stark discussions in the past about anyone who thinks they can survive on the proverbial 'wild hickory nuts' and drink dandelion root coffee. 99% of those who count on that are likely to be careless, uninformed idiots who will die rather quickly in a big hooey....probably by trying to steal from people who actually OWN the land where they decided they'd have their shangri-la campout. <_<

 

"Wild Hickory Nuts" need to learn at this site ...so that they can find out exactly why that is NOT a valid survival plan.

 

Of course, the other 1% are folks who really CAN survive on 'wild hickory nuts' and will sip their hot morning beverage calmly knowing what the land does provide. [i'm not in that 1% ....wish I was!]

 

MtRider -- just clarity folks... :shrug:

Edited by Mt_Rider
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On the subject of EMP..... I find I STILL don't know which information is valid regarding EMP ...particularly

 

--which things will or will not be affected [like vehicles ]

 

--if having something turned off or running is or is not a factor

 

--what constitutes a valid "faraday cage"

 

--different results from different causes? ie: various types of nukes and/or a solar flare [CME]

 

 

What we do know is that if even half of the worst case scenario happens, it's going to be really bad and very likely for a long time. If it really won't affect vehicles, etc.....or if it really won't affect things that are not plugged in/running , that would tremendously change outcomes too. But....who knows? :shrug:

 

 

MtRider :scratchhead:

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Yes, MtR...there's alot of people that are called preppers who have absolutely no plans to shelter in place. I think it's sort of a game to them, even though they're not aware of it. We have run into them alot at expo's etc.. Then there are those who purposely purchase parcels of land & build a bug out shelter and fill it with their supplies...and plan to bug out from their current home, and go there. Sometimes these parcels are miles and miles away from their current home...no, I'm not talking about Doomsday people...I'm talking about people we've met and talked to that are "preppers". We see young people at these expo's buying "trinkets" of what they consider survival, because they're planning to go to the woods etc. Anybody that's ever been hunting knows that after that first shot is fired, the wild life scatters. They're used to hunting seasons. Anybody who's done any fishing also knows that it's sometimes very difficult to catch enough fish to support a family larger than two, and if waters freeze, they're even less likely to catch enough to eat. Just making some comments friends, on how we see things.

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Philbe those are usually the same ones who complain when they try out those trinkets that it's hard "living off the grid". :runcirclsmiley2: They give me a giggle. The husband says there are a lot of other people who are sure going to enjoy coming across all their preps when they have bit the dust from stupidity. :shakinghead:

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Yes, MtR...there's alot of people that are called preppers who have absolutely no plans to shelter in place. I think it's sort of a game to them, even though they're not aware of it. We have run into them alot at expo's etc.. Then there are those who purposely purchase parcels of land & build a bug out shelter and fill it with their supplies...and plan to bug out from their current home, and go there. Sometimes these parcels are miles and miles away from their current home...no, I'm not talking about Doomsday people...I'm talking about people we've met and talked to that are "preppers". We see young people at these expo's buying "trinkets" of what they consider survival, because they're planning to go to the woods etc. Anybody that's ever been hunting knows that after that first shot is fired, the wild life scatters. They're used to hunting seasons. Anybody who's done any fishing also knows that it's sometimes very difficult to catch enough fish to support a family larger than two, and if waters freeze, they're even less likely to catch enough to eat. Just making some comments friends, on how we see things.

 

I didn't think Philbe was talking about anyone on this site. I assumed it was the Macho Rambo Weekend Warriors she was talking about. I agree about the wildlife too. Not only will most of them be scared away, but I imagine the deer and fish etc. will very soon be fished/hunted out. There will probably be a lot of waste too. I don't see a lot of city folks gutting a deer and using all the meat. Probably cut off a hind leg and call it a roast and let the rest of it rot. I think a lot of people treat it like a game too.

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Yeah, I figured that too but...

 

..... :sigh: I just really hope that somehow those "Macho Rambo Weekend Warriors" (..cute, Jeepers) stumble onto our humble MRS. SURVIVAL and learns to pack beans and bandaids with those bullets!

 

 

One thing we talked about some years ago....research how the ancient, pre-electric folks lived in the region you're in [or hope to Bug to]. That will tell you a lot about how you might survive in a post-electric situation in that specific area.

 

 

<_< Then factor in a much increased population..... (for a while, anyway)

 

:o Then factor in the fact that few of us know how to harvest, store, eat what they did.... (but some of us are always learning)

 

:) You also get to factor in some modern items that will still be handy! :campfire:

 

 

......you get the picture.

 

 

And that was when I realized that our location wasn't gonna be good :shakinghead: Our pre-electric folks migrated to lower altitudes for the winter..... If they couldn't do it...... :frozen:

 

 

MtRider -- "flee to the mountains" ......ahem, not these mountains.

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Just make sure your bug out plans have a backup and you may need to replan that too. I don't expect to bug out except for wildfire, though I'd like to move, that is different. I had two locations close to me that I could run to. One was a sister who divorced her husband of 19 yrs and remarried then moved to FL. The other was a friend and her husband left her, then he stopped paying on the double wide so it was repoed and now she is living with family in Houston. So we would have to got to a motel temporarily if anything happened here. Very limited options right now. Nearly always, though, if you have to evac for something like wildfire, you can come back home. Sometimes you have lost the home and have to find new digs, but usually not. Remember, most hooey hit the fan situations are not all that wide spread. We always talk about the "big one" hitting, but many of us will have "dress rehearsals" (some of us will have more than one) and may or may not ever see the "big one".

 

I figure I can add maybe 2 weeks worth of food to my backpack, but after that I would have to find a resupply. Living off the land takes a lot of calories if you don't already know where the food is or the season isn't right. People glamorize the American Indian because the natives learned to live off the land. They forget that there was not a huge population then. The Indians moved around seasonally and rarely had permanent towns. They had techniques to gather and prepare wild foods that we are not knowledgeable about. It is essential that you gather more calories than you expend during the collection and preparation! Most people would also need to gather for their very young children at the least. Some of the more civilized groups would help the elderly too, though if you are nomadic, you cannot care for someone who is not mobile. I could not take daughter to the woods and expect us to live.

 

Right now there is nothing in those woods around here that I could gather to eat. There were no grapes again, due to drought. The acorns haven't ripened. The pecan trees died in 2011 during the drought. What few greens might be available in wetter yrs either didn't sprout or dried up months ago. There are a few bunnies and a few deer that hang around because of my pond and there are some wild hogs. Wouldn't take long to hunt all those out. If there was no electric the pond would dry up since I fill it from the well for my livestock. We've had no appreciable rain for weeks and it has been scant for the last 3 yrs.

 

If the "big one" hit, I would be MUCH better off here with my food stores than trying to go live in the woods. Even an apt in town is going to be better than the woods for the vast majority of people. I hear about the golden horde leaving the city and swarming over the country side but I just don't see that happening. Most are afraid of the unknown and most will stay close to the familiar. That is just human nature. The ones you need to watch out for are the ones who already live nearby and are unprepared.

 

I expect there will be some arm chair commandos that will try to hit the woods after the big one, but most are just talk. They won't get far. Yes, there will be exceptions, I just don't expect any running gun fights, trying to protect us from the horde.

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that is true. I have some food supplies that are shelf stable I will move with me. but it would be boring with just that. Still it is better than nothing. Still, these are a different woods system entirely than what your regions have. In spring and summer , well summer any way and fall , there is an abundance.It does take effort to gather things, and one has to be a vigilant gardner when it comes to critters. Problem is , Fall is here. My social situation is isolated and I would not take food from anyone I know or more than a meal the way things are because I know they would be struggling too. although I have tried to educate them as well, those I care about. One friend would secure my best possessions for me and wait for my son to send money for shipping them to him so they would be safe if he is secure in his situation if there is a nationwide crisis of magnitude. But mail still works, otherwise my friends will keep them stored for me.

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but many of us will have "dress rehearsals" (some of us will have more than one) and may or may not ever see the "big one".

 

So.....since I've had SO many dress rehearsals....does that mean I don't have to do the BIG one? :P

 

 

MtRider <_< well....just had to ask..... :sigh:

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