Mother

I have enjoyed these comments immensely the last couple of days. I chuckle though and want to say..."Oh Ye of little faith" Did you actually think we would let any of you get hurt on this crossing after working so hard to get you here? (MT3B. I have lived through numberous floods, even living in our raised home through two of them for weeks as the water receded before moving. I learned how to row a boat in my front yard LOL. I would never drive my car through flood waters as I've seen what is left of roads afterwards but I would not hesitate to take a Conestoga across that river as they are made to be like boats, that is why the smaller verison was often called a "prairie Schooner"...not only do they float but the oxen and horses can swim. As long as their is no snags to grab them they are a lot safer than a car that would difinitely sink...I was apprehensive about my camper wagon but not my Conestogas.) It was wonderful to see how you each handled this situation though. Q and MT3B fearful of the crossing, Annarchy calmly assessing the situataion. We aren't sure how CeeGee or others are going to handle the crossing yet but I suspect it will be with grace and prayer as we've all been doing all along. The lodge will be our focal point from now on and our meeting place. Either I or Mt.R will try to give a description of it so we will all be on the same page with it. Some of us will be setting up a temporary camp there that we will use as an anchor as we search for our own homesteads. (If you want to join us there but the river is still up, give us a shout and we'll come help you across ) Of course, we can always find some of the B's group there as well. The library will be there, the medical building is there, and hopefully our church will be there too. We can leave messages for each other at the lodge once we get moved to our homesteads. We can meet there for Sunday Services if CeeGee and family are willing, or she can become "circuit rider" if she wants. We'll be bringing up some 'decisions' the group has to make soon and from time to time after that. We will occassionally be helping each other, perhaps with a barn raising (or even cabin raising), building bridges, harvesting perhaps as well. We might be throwing some 'adventures' from time to time also just so you don't get complacent on your homesteads and get careless. (remember, you may have some of the B's group homesteading near you if you need them) Other than that, we want to hear ALL about your homestead. Not all in one post but rather daily or as often as you can 'post' in your journals. Try to 'teach' as you journal so that others can 'learn' from what you say. (Why did you place your garden where you did and how did you clear the area, what did you use for hinges on your doors, etc.) but don't hesitate to also journal the normal everyday life you are leading. What are you eating? How are you keeping things cold? or hot? How much work is it to haul wood? We want to know about the challenges and how you overcame them. We want to know about your joys and your disappointments. We want to know your thoughts and your ideas and most of all, we want to be able to 'see' the life you are living. Great work Wagoneers, I'm really looking forward to this thread. It's going to be the best ever.

It was difficult to see them go but we all stood and watched as first MT3B and some of her family left us to explore further south, only W and A staying with the wagons until they returned. Michael and Lori were next to leave and when Q and Mr.Q pulled out I held in a sob as I watched their wagon slowly make its way south. The rest of us had no choice. We posted guards to keep watch that there was no repeat of the oxen incidence of the morning and some of the wagons were moved closer to the hill in fear the water would rise. Our family, having lived through and even IN more than our share of floods, had decided to stay where we were for the time but to have everything in readiness to hitch the teams and move if needed. By mid afternoon the rain had dwindled to a drizzle and the river waters had receded. Those remaining at the river took a sigh of relief. Mr. Hughes and Mr. Smith knew the river well at this crossing, having been involved with the building of the bridge to begin with, and they were confident that we could make it across now that the rain had quit and the volume of water had lessened. Mr. Jones had been involved with the purchase of the wagons and he explained to us that they had been built specifically for these types of situations. The Conestoga’s design, being boat shaped, made it possible, even in pioneer times, to float through deep water. Their weight distribution made it possible for them to stay upright in adverse situations like this one. He then pointed out that these were all built of modern materials and were even more reliable. He assured us they would make the crossing just fine and we all went to finish what we'd started, building the raft to take the carts and animals and maybe Big D's buggy if she didn't think it would float well enough. By late afternoon we found ourselves standing on the bank, watching a much lower river flowing at our feet. It was still high but it didn’t look as threatening as it had and the thought of waiting another day to cross was worse than facing the water. The teams were all hitched and the wagons had been inspected for possible leaks. Logs had been cut and tied together to make a large raft for use with whatever carts or buggies that would not float and to bring the sheep and other animals that would not swim the river. I stood for a time at the waters edge, watching the water. It was probably only sixty or so feet across but I could see what looked like bridge piers standing in the water some distance from the shore, indicating that the river was only thirty or forty feet wide normally. It really brought home how fast things could change, reminding me that we will need to be ever vigilant in this new life. The unknown is always just around the corner when you are dealing with nature. We all watched as the men tied one end of a heavy coil of rope securely to a tree and then Mr. Hughes mounted his big bay horse and placed the heavy coil onto his shoulder. He walked his horse to the waters edge and then urged him into the muddy looking foam. Mr. H was playing out the rope little by little as he went across and as he got to the first bridge pier we could see him making a loop in the rope. He tossed the loop over the pier and continued into the river. We watched as the horse seemed to lose it’s footing and then started to swim. IOnce they reached the middle of the river the current grabbed the trailing rope and almost managed to unseat the man. The drag pulled the horse under once and there was a faint gasp of indrawn breath from someone in the back of the group. Suddenly a young man was riding his horse into the river, urging it to swim once it hit the deeper part. Another man followed and then the two were there, grabbing hold of the rope at different spots, holding it the best they could while Mr. Hughes struggled to get the coil of rope around the far pier before they all gave their horses their heads and headed for the edge of the river, the end of the rope held securely around a saddle horn. We all breathed a sigh of relief once they were safely across and then watched as they pulled and tugged to get the end of the wet rope tied to a sturdy tree on the bank. When Mr. Hughes made his way back across the river, testing the rope as he went, he was playing out another, smaller, rope that had been tied to the saddle of the last man who had gone to help. It too was tied off to a tree across from us. The bigger rope wouldn’t hold a wagon from going down stream, it wasn’t meant to. It was only meant to offer a safety line to anyone going into the river and it might afford a few extra minutes for help to get to those in need. The smaller rope was for pulling the raft. Once Mr. H was back the first wagon was started across. I was just grateful it wasn’t mine. We knew it had been well caulked before we left home and we’d reinforced that early this morning even though it meant moving almost everything in the wagon. Unlike the pass, this time we’d be riding across with the wagon and I sure hoped we’d done a good job. I felt some moments of anxiety though when Dh closed the bottom part of the double back door behind us and started to caulk it shut. What I had regarded as a necessary luxury for Mom and I to get in and out of the wagon had become a definite liability crossing the river. Mom and I watched from the front seat of the wagon for a while. The wagons were all double-teamed and every available draft animal was put into play along with some of the riding horses. The more strength pulling, the better we’d be. The first wagon didn’t float right away but the water rose higher on the sides then we’d expected. It was almost half way across when it gave us a scare as it first tipped and then righted itself. It was almost against the rope by the time it hit the other shore though and the bank there was almost too steep for the oxen to get the wagon out of the water. We watched as they slipped in the mud, pulling more and more of the bank with them as they tried again and again to mount the edge until finally the two men on the other shore rode into the water to tie ropes on either side of the wagon and then back onto the bank where the horses added their strength to pull the wagon to safety. Mr. Hughes started the second wagon further up river and though it too drifted downriver it went across without a problem, landing where the bank was shallow enough to go up easily. Again and again a wagon was started and made it to the other side safely. When about half the wagons were across Mr. Hughes had the raft pulled into the water, tied in the front with the smaller rope from across the river, and in back by another tied to the horses much like the cable had been in the pass. I didn’t see what happened after that because our wagon had been moved and Mom and I had to be content with each other’s company until it was our turn but we could hear sheep bleating and the squealing of pigs. DH finally came to take the reins of our horses. He had to crawl up on the wheel and into the front through the window but I was relieved that I didn’t have to handle the team. Our wagon went across but not without water seeping under the door and onto the floor and I was glad that we’d bothered to set anything not waterproof up high and to move the food and other perishables to the other wagons. Even the puppies were on the bed in their cage with Sasha lying beside them. I think Mom and I were both frightened but all I could do was laugh as Mom, with a decided twinkle in her eye, said she hoped the water wouldn’t get past her belly button as she couldn’t breath if it did. Then as the water raised a bit higher she jokingly yelled…”where’s the tin can so I can start bailing.” I’m sure everyone thought we must be crazy to be laughing as the wagons pulled up onto the shore but I really believe Mom enjoyed that little venture. She has been such a comfort and a joy on this trip. I doubt I would have done as well without her. The crossing was not without mishaps. I’m not sure what all happened but I know some, us included, lost items off the outside of the wagons and it was hoped that they would be found further down along the river or at the lake’s edge. One of the young men drivers was thrown over board and ended up against the rope but someone on a horse was there in record time to protect him from the strong current and help as he pull himself along it to get to the bank. Someone in the back of that wagon was screaming but the team just kept going across, obviously because they had had weeks of following after a wagon and conditioned to do so even without a driver. By early evening the wagons were headed for the lodge, still dripping water as they went. We were all damp or downright soaked and looking forward to dry clothes and a warm fire and solid ground under our feet but once again we’d persisted and we’d won. We all felt like nothing could stop us now. We were HOME!

What about visability? Would you be able to see with the debris moving in the water? This river might be colder than that if the water was moving through snow yet, though it is coming from a northeasterly direction which would mean it's had a lot of sun on the area which might warm it. What about safety? Would you use a safety rope or? Can you tell I know next to nothing about diving? IRL would you consider diving a river that was over it's banks? Would you take YOUR wagon across even if the water was deep enough to 'float' it? (knowing it was designed with that possibility in mind?) This is an intriguing thought that never crossed my mind.

((((Quiltys))) I have claustrophobia so I can emphasize with you. BUT,,, what are you going to do if we wait and the river goes down to normal? Will you be able to 'ford' it then? You will still have to cross that river or the new bridge if we manage to get it built if and when you ever come to the lodge? Ummm I hate to be bearer of bad news,,,,but unless the supplies we all ordered (did you order any to be sent to that last post office?) finally got to the ranch and unless the mule (pack) train is able to get to the valley with them,,, there isn't going to be a lot of supplies. Unless, of course, the B's have stocked up the Lodge and are going to be sharing those with us. (I hadn't heard that but it very well could be. I know that the B's had supplies, that didn't come, they were going to be picking up at the ranch too but I'm not sure what they were....Might have to reread some of our past posts to see if it says) HOWEVER,,,there are (or will be soon) a lot of edible wild spring plants in the valley as well as game for hunting. We'll be able to 'find' them if we know what we are looking for. Does any of that help LOL?

(Suspending the animation until others get a chance to post their ideas. Tomorrow will still be our UN-today.....if that makes any sense LOL. I'm looking forward to more posts on our UN-today. [You CAN post here yet] Did anyone tell me it would be easy to pull off this UNReality thing? SHERI?)

Good questions Annarchy. I am assuming that the river was deep enough at one time to wash away the bridge but what it is now is open to discussion. Most mountain streams carry the possibility of having rocky bottoms and this one possibly has as well. The banks may be another story however. Would it be safe for you to put on your gear and check it out? Would the current be too swift? That is an intriguing possibility. Unlike what we have done with other scenes where we throw them at you unawares, I was curious what decisions would be made if it were left up to each of you instead of the "wagon master". To give you more information to base your posts on here are some more tips. Because your Conestoga wagons in the past were built so they would be able to 'float' a river the modern ones you have now were built to do the same only safer. (You can find that information in some of the earlier threads) It was originally intented to have you experience that in this scene. The rivers in this valley are at least a two lane highway width at normal times. (I believe Sheri told us that recently didn't she?) There are bridge piers (most likely wooden) at what would be the normal edges of the river. The rain is yet an unknown intenty at this point. (It can go either way) There could be a ford further up or down stream but it's doubtful if the water was deep enough (at least at some point) to wash away the bridge. Our closest clear drinking water is at least two hours back at the last spring we stopped at at noon. (yesterday) Probably take longer as it will be up hill and probably a bit slippery by now. And at the Lodge which has it's own well. It is just over the river and a short distance beyond, high and dry. Besides the Lodge, there is the hill where the animals were herded to graze but no room to circle the wagons in the dense trees. I suppose they could be pulled in there singly though but we'd have to conserve water if we stay there. Quesstions. Would those of you who are looking for homesteads in the south prefer to go it alone, now, instead of going to the lodge for a few days of rest and to wait for ALL the rivers and streams to subside. Remember there is no telling what you might find for flooding there either. Would those of you who are looking to the north for land want to wait it out, cross that stream, or ??? Are there other possibilities other than what's been mentioned so far? These are hard decisions but they are ones that our pioneer forefathers had to make on the trail. Remember though, we still have a responsibility to the 'group', the 'survival' group. The one that came to the valley to form a new community. Now you know ALMOST as much as we do about the situation.

I was getting ready to post our "itinerary" for the day when I noticed Q's post. She has a valid suggestion. Before I let everyone know what we ARE going to do, I'd like to give you a chance to voice your opinions. Here's some tips to help you along. *Mr. Hughes and Mr.Smith know the area well and were involved in the original bridge building. *Think about what most of you are riding in. *It is raining and there are no indications that the rain is going to let up soon. *What supplies do we have on hand? *Where might our safest drinkable water supply be? I'll be back later to see what is posted. Maybe it will change the decision.

The last few days have been trying for everyone in the train. Now we are faced with still another delay and still another challenge. Then the rain came. Not just rain but a storm that sent all of us running to our wagons with sinking hearts. It was hoped that the water would recede by morning but every drop of rain that falls makes that seem more and more impossible. Mom and Dh are asleep. Even Sasha and pups are asleep. The whole wagon smells of wet dog. No, that's not exactly correct. It smells of BIG wet dog and fast growing puppies. I am tired and chilled to my insides but from the weather or the churning fear that I hear calling from the rushing waters of the river I can't tell. Perhaps it is because there is so much water setting around even under the wagons. It was impossible to keep a fire going because of the water filling the fire pit. I have a vague uneasy feeling. I have been in many floods in my time, even lived in our home twice for weeks surrounded by flood water. Sloshing back to the wagon tonight, my boots sucking at the mud felt too familiar. At least the herders have taken the animals back into the trees where they have higher ground and the protection of the pines. It must be a miserable night for the animals and herders alike. Our DGSs are out there for half the night. I'm glad they both have full rain gear. Tomorrow. We will most likely know tomorrow what our next step will be. "Quiet Sasha, it's just thunder. Go to sleep. We both need sleep. "

GROAN!!! You WOULD have to ask that Leah. Okay, I believe it's early May now. Just roughly speaking. We should have our last frost in the valley no later than the 10th maybe but with snow still setting in spots it's going to be, as you said, mini climates. We're going to have to get those gardens going very soon if we want good crops. Early peas and etc could be going in now. Poor MT3B has been trying to start plants but keeps getting hit with the cold on them. We're going to have to choose wisely where we put things like tomatoes and peppers so they will be protected as long as possible into the fall/early winter but this valley has a nice variety of micro climates so it shouldn't be too difficult. Phew,,,, now I went out on a limb but then.....no one can really predict what the weather will bring anywhere now a days. Right? Maybe Mt. R will give us more info on this.

Please, don't ask Mt.R and Michael how sweet I am....I keep throwing monkey wrenches into the plans. . I forgot to have you tell Mr.Q that Mother says he needs to get well soon. I KNEW he was overdoing it the last couple of days on the trail. (((((Mr. Q))))) Don't worry about us not throwing in extras. LOL. Anyway, I believe you'll be surprised at how well we continue to make this work. It might take us a while to make it mesh, much like it did to begin with on the journey, because we will be writing in a bit different form but it will. I'm sure of it. I'm so sure of it I keep smiling.

Yes, we ARE down off that mountain, only a hop skip and a jump from the warm friendly Lodge on the OTHER side of the Northeast River. We will be giving you OPTIONS soon but I'm not saying any of them are GOOD options. Hang in there. I'm still waiting for the WORD to tell me WHICH options LOL (okay so we never said it was easy keeping ahead of you wondreful writers. In the mean time, maybe you'd like to tell us how you feel about this little discouragement. Perhaps even, like MT3B, give some options that you might think of. Perhaps they are better than ours. I would like to say that even though we have a couple of things to throw in, it won't be long before each of you will be going off on your own to find your ideal homestead. You will probably want to post in journal form when we aren't having a get together. You will have a chance to tell us what you find. Not just your ideal homestead but about the places you looked at that didn't work for you and why. We want you to take your time to do this because it's all part of the fun and process of choosing. Then there will be the daily building and keeping up with meals and etc while you are doing it. Maybe finding wild foods, dealing with troublesome raccoons, braving the weather, the hardships and the joys, the headaches and the heartfelt wonder. Don't forget the recipes just as the early pioneer might have done. If we can do a daily journal we can tell the whole story. We will be prompting at times and we'll get together for various projects and etc. You can do letters to each other or send messages by a rider. Live the life, write the life. I can barely wait to read what you have to write. This will be a lot like reading the old pioneer journals only more detailed (because grandmother had to watch how much paper she used, we,,,,well okay, we SHOULD watch the paper in UN life LOL) In the mean time, Stay tuned for the next ummmmm well ummm

Thunder woke me before light and I could hear water running under the wagon. I suppose camping on a hill on an almost bare track was going to give us mud in the morning but I tried to ignore it and go back to sleep. Sleep eluded me though and I lay snuggled in my covers, just listening to the rain beat down. I knew we would be leaving the mountainside this morning even if it were raining when we got ready to go. We had no clean water supply here and according to Mr. J there was a spring further down the trail. There was also not a lot of graze for the animals and they needed it badly after the work they'd done the last few days. According to him we should be at the lodge by late afternoon if not before. Unless, I said to myself, we are held up by this thunderstorm turning paths to mud. I hoped not. It wasn't long though before the rain stopped and I could hear someone starting a fire. I peeked out and saw it was Michael with Chef standing beside him. I crawled out of bed to go help with the breakfast I knew was planned for everyone. I knew the fast we got going, the faster we'd get there. The sun was shining through by the time we were all ready to move out but I could see big thunderheads roiling over the mountains. I prayed they would hold off until we got to the valley floor. I could hardly wait to get to that lodge, the talisman that substituted for home. Our wagon, having been the first down off the pass, was the first on the trail and I pitied those coming behind. The trail was almost solid mud causing both the horses and the wagon to slip and slide around and it was all I could do to keep them moving down. They were tired from the strain of the last few days, unused muscles probably screaming in protest. We were all tired and feeling the same way. By mid morning though, with the ground quickly drying underfoot we were making better time. I wondered how the water was disappearing so fast but didn't stop in my mind to figure it out, it was too beautiful a day to do more than enjoy the scenery. All morning we traveled back and forth, switching directions from North to South and then down a slippery slide and back North again. I realized that we were going from plateau to plateau and that it was the only way possible to get down but it was adding miles and hours to our descent. The trees were dense and I could see where they had been cut in places to forge the trail. We stopped several times to remove fallen trees from our path and once we had to lever a big boulder out of the way. So many places along the way had precarious looking rock formations and I carefully watched the uphill sides of the trail in case more should fall. Not that I would know what to do if they did come tumbling at me but I wanted to at least have the chance to react if they did. Occasionally I caught glimpses of the lake and valley below. The views were spectacular with acres of verdant green interspersed with the stark browns of bare trees. At one point I could actually see the roof of what I assumed was the lodge near the lake. It almost seemed to be calling to me to hurry but the horse, which once had been so eager to barrel through each hill and dale, now that I wanted them to put on speed, were content to plod along. We stopped for water at noon, allowing each wagon to pull up to a heavily flowing spring. The water came right out of the hillside between two big trees. It flowed into a small rock basin below where the water pooled before running away through the trees. It was on the down hill side of the trail but in looking through the trees I wondered if the water crossed the trail further down and we'd have to wade through it there. We each filled our water barrels but didn't attempt to fill the water wagon, We planned to be at the lodge before needing it. There was more of the same terrain for the next couple of hours but by three o'clock we were seeing glimpses of the lake through the trees and an excitement began to take hold of us all. We were almost 'home'. I wasn't looking forward to driving over the log bridge that Mr. Hughes said was across the Northeast river. I had learned in past experiences that the horses were really touchy about those crossings and if I heard right, this bridge didn't even have sides on it. It was just split logs laid across between the banks. I guess I shouldn't have worried. I could hear the rushing of the water directly ahead of us and I knew it was only a short distance to the lodge from the river and I was more than ready to cross that bridge to get there even if it meant walking the horses myself. Mr. Hughes was riding ahead and I saw him stop on a rise in the trail and then turn back pushing his horse into a trot. "Mother, we'd better circle the wagons here," he said as he stopped by the wagon. "We aren't going any further today. The river is running out of its banks and the bridge is gone!"

All of you are AMAZING! Your wonderful insightful, descriptive words are what is making this thread into an awesome venture. Are you ready for more. We're heading down tomorrow but get out your slickers and rain gear. (just thought I'd warn you) Great work everyone. More challenges coming up. Leah, from my vantage point it WAS just like that. Did I mention I really detest heights almost as much as I hate confined areas? That was even hard to WRITE! That valley sure is beautiful seen through the eyes of our wagoneers, isn't it?

Quiltys...it's got to be VISTA...I have it too and I'm always finding some discrepcency like that. It's true though, the map is fine just the way it is. There is nothing on it besides what you see. The magnifying glass just brings it a bit closer is all. We've got a couple people down the slope so far. They had some close calls. Can't wait to hear how the rest of you did. (((((((everyone))))))))

The thread is open. I'm really looking forward to hearing about your 'days' coming down off that pass. Let the WRITING and FUN begin,,,,again. Warning, we might be down off that pass but we are still up in the hills.....How much excitement can the wagoneers take?

I was trying to listen to what Mr. Hughes was saying but my eyes kept straying back to the steep slope in front of me. I tried to tell myself that it was no worse than some we'd climbed but I knew better in my heart. I wasn't good at guessing gradients or percentages of drop but we have seven percent graded roads in some places back home and this was definitely steeper than that. It looked almost impossible that we would be able to get the wagons down it and safely stopped at a group of huge boulders at it's bottom where presumably the trail took a turn into the trees. I pulled my mind and my fear back from the drop and turned to see Mr. Hughes showing everyone a large cable set-up with a series of pulleys that had been built into a large rock outcropping directly in front of what was obviously the route down. I'm no engineer and this set up looked like anything but a feat of engineering but I was impressed with the solid timbers, trees really, that were built between two big rock outcroppings. I started to pay closer attention as I wondered how they had gotten that big cable out here. Mr. Hughes was explaining that each wagon with teams of oxen would be hooked securely to the cable that ran through the pulleys. The horses would be harnessed to the opposite end of the cable to be used as counter balance and we'd have to back the horses towards the pulleys as the wagon was taken down. Each wagon would not only have it's brake set but we would also be using logs through the wheels to act as a drag to slow the wagons further. I knew from what little experience I'd had with my own horses in the last few weeks that it would not be an easy task to coordinate the team work but I could only accept the fact that Mr. Smith, Mr. Jones, and Mr. Hughes had done it before and I prayed they knew what they were doing. When I moved back closer to the edge of the overlook I could see that there wasn't really a drop off as it looked from further back. I could see that the path going down had been cleared of rocks and debris, which had been used to fill in gaps along the path like guard rails on a highway. I tried not to think about what those rocks might be guarding. I didn't have the time for Mr. Hughes was explaining exactly how each driver must handle their teams down the first step of the journey down. I was a bit relieved when he told us that at the end of this first slope the path took a turn and another steep decline but this one not requiring a cable or the log skids but only a firm hand on the teams and the brakes as we'd done dozens of times before. Why did that not comfort me? It seemed to be another one of those "little ditch" places that my horses were so fond of meeting head on and full tilt. When I found our camper wagon was going to be the first down I could only stare at Mr. Hughes as he told us that even though we'd loaded it with items from the supply wagon to distribute the weight more evenly, it was the lightest actual wagon in the train. The buggies were, of course the lightest but he wanted to give the horses a chance to accustom themselves to the backwards pull before getting those down the slope. I had wondered why Mr. Hughes had had us exchanging the back rubber wheels for the original steel wheels the night before and now I knew. He had worried that the hydraulic brakes wouldn't hold up after all their wear and tear and we would be using a log just like the rest of the wagons to slow us down on the descent. I found that I was not going to be driving the wagon and I was greatly relieved. Because the horses were used to me I was going to be helping Mr. S, DD, and several others with the teams on the counter balance while Mr. Hughes and Dh would be going down with the wagon, Mr. Hughes driving and Dh walking beside the oxen to help control them. Neither position was safe and I could feel the tension rising as the men hooked up the cable. No one was allowed to ride in the wagon, not even the puppies, and we piled them all into the big folding kennel that MT3B had loaned us and set them aside to be carried down later, when everyone was safe at the bottom. Once the cable was hooked to both wagon and the teams of horses and every thing was double checked to make sure it would hold, we led the horses back towards the clearing where the wagons were parked dragging the cable behind. We were over half way across the clearing when the cable became taut and before I had a chance to become more nervous Mr. Hughes was whistling to the team of oxen and the wagon started towards the incline. The horses, feeling the pull automatically pulled against it and started to skitter around and it was no easy job to keep them slowly moving backwards while trying to stay out of the way as they pranced and sidestepped. One of the horses reared once and almost picked DD off the ground and I heard her yell for me to get out of the way but I knew if I let go of the horse I was holding I'd fall and be trampled. It seemed we fought them for a long time when suddenly they were moving backwards as if they'd been doing it all their life. As we neared the pulley set up I heard a collective indrawn breath from those watching and turned to see our wagon tilting precariously as it met a dip in the track. Suddenly Mr. Smith was yelling to the horses, getting them to move backwards at a faster rate and then the wagon was upright and moving downwards again only at a rate I felt was too fast and I held my breath. Then people were cheering and through my tears I realized that our wagon was at the bottom and pulling to a stop in front of the boulders and people were slipping and sliding down the slope to help unhook the cable and remove the log. Within minutes the wagon was around the bend and out of sight and we were moving the horses into the clearing again to get ready for the next wagon. The day was almost a blur after that as wagon after wagon was hitched up and hooked to the cable. The horses and oxen teams were switched out every couple of wagons and others replaced me at the horses after about the fifth wagon. I was grateful not because the horses were now difficult to handle but because the tension of doing so was getting to me. I went immediately back to help with getting lunch ready. By five in the evening dusk was setting in and only half the train was down the hill. Mr. Hughes finally called a halt despite the problem of having our train divided. There had been numerous rests throughout the day but both man and animals were exhausted. Most of the livestock was still at the top of the pass, being held in a grassy area out of the way. I helped with the chores before going to stand at the edge of the slope dreading the walk down. It wasn't that it was so steep to walk but that I was almost too tired to contemplate it. I called Sasha to me and we started picking our way past the ruts. Her puppies had been taken down some time before and I knew that the dog would be in a hurry to get to them but she stayed right beside me the whole way. We were soon joined by others going down and within fifteen minutes we were at the wagons. Someone had helped Mom down earlier, somehow, and she handed me a sandwich and hot tea as I sat near the small fire someone had started. By eight o'clock the entire camp, except for the guards, were asleep and for all I know, the guards may have slept too. By four the next afternoon all the wagons were down with no one hurt and only minor difficulties. I wasn't there to help as I knew I wouldn't be able to walk up that slope but those of us staying below heard about each wagon's journey down as it came into camp. One of the log drags broke on a wagon half way down but thankfully the horses managed to hold it back long enough for the guys to get it cleared away and another in it's place for the rest of the descent. That had to be a scary ride. A wheel broke on one of the B's wagons but it too managed to get to the bottom with the wagon intact, though dragging the totally destroyed wheel. There were other stories of danger and I breathed a prayer of thanks each time one of the wagon's pulled up behind us. The hardest part was getting all the animals down safely. It wasn't much of a problem for the goats and sheep and the small animals either rode the wagons or carts down. It was the cows and horses that balked going down the incline. Mr. Hughes solved that problem by tying them together like a pack team and he and a few of the others led them down a narrow switch back trail off to the side of the wagon route and though it took a lot longer they all arrived safely at the wagons. We were a tired but jubilant group that finally gathered in the lower clearing. It was too late to travel further for the day and we prepared to settle in for the night once again. There wasn't enough room to circle the wagons and we left them lined up along the trail. We had very little water left in the water wagon or barrels as they had been almost emptied to make the wagons lighter but we did the chores as best we could, giving the animals as much water as we had. Mom and I and several others had prepared a hot meal for everyone but it was good thing it was only stew as most were almost too tired to eat. Before long people were crawling into their beds too tired to think about the fact that there was no way we'd ever be able to get our wagons back UP that slope. For better or worse, the wagons, at least, were here to stay. (Did your ride down go smoothly? How did you feel? How did your animals and family fare? Tell us about it. But remember, you are still on that hillside, just below the pass. More to come!!!!)

Bu,,,, But,,, But, MT3B,,,,you haven't even SEEN the land yet??? What if it's FLOODED? What if it's GRAVEL!!! Tsk tsk,,,you are as bad as I am MT3B.....I, however, am reserving the right to MOVE my red M just in case there's no soil where I THINK I want to go. Yes, Michael, I do believe MY world is a bit messed up and our weather too. We are going to have below zero all week. BRRRRRRRR! and I am hauling wood too but not chopping it. Someone else is doing that. LOL! (working on getting the thread open) Stay warm,

Sorry, there is NO little blue thing in the left hand corner nor is there a magnifying glass. Q, Michael's showing a definite lack of proper sympathy for us poor little women. I believe he will make up for it by chopping wood and carrying water for the next week or so if he can't get it fixed...Won't you dear Michael?

Pouting...Michael, I can't get the map to open in a new window A bit more info. The livable portion of the valley (not including the steep cliff faces and etc) is 10 X 20 miles. (200 square mile) That is 128,000 acres of land. (640 acres in a square mile) Each individual adult gets forty acres and even with our big family group we only amass 400 acres. That is only approx. 3/4 of a mile square. (a little over a half inch square on the map, 1/320 th of the map?) There is plenty of room for all and more besides.

As you have all been waiting for,,,,the new Thread is UP! I'm sure you have also noticed that it is LOCKED!!! Sorry about that, but as Michael says, we have some 'adventures' in line for you, first of which will be getting down the mountain we are standing on. For this, Wagoneers, we will be setting the stage and then you can jump in with your 'experiences'. We won't be rushing to the lake either as we have an 'obstacle' (or two) along the way. As a reference, we will all be together yet until we 'finally' reach the lake and after a day or so R&O (rest and organization LOL) and a few parameters (guidlines?) you will be taking off on your own to look for your ideal land. We are hoping for some journals of this so we can all 'go along' with you. Once you choose your land (after you finally get to go look for it that is) we'd like you to tell us it's location (on the map) and a description of the land. (More about this in the thread) We have given you a brief description of the valley and the simple map to get you thinking. Michael can give us more info about the map later if we need it. In a day or so the thread will open with "We're going to do WHAT?" Happy New Year everyone!!!

I stood there in the pass trying to listen carefully to what Mr. Hughes was saying to us but my eyes were focused on what was below me. It was one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen. The pass seemed to be centered on the valley and about 1500 feet above, while the valley itself looked to be twice as long as it was wide. I could see a large body of water, a good-sized lake, almost directly in front of us. There was water going in and out of it at each end, rivers I assumed. There were quite a few areas that had water running through rocks and clefts and rolling hills. Some of them might have been spring runoff but I could see snow still lingering here and there in shadowed places throughout the valley. Three or four of the water runoffs seemed big enough to be rivers themselves but they appeared and disappeared among the trees and it was hard to tell. The cold wind bit into my cheeks and I pulled my parka closer around me as I continued to stare out at what was to be our new home. Trees covered well more than half the area but I could see rolling hills to the north and flat land to the south. As I listened to Mr. Hughes talk about the trail we would be traveling once we got down into the valley I looked where he was pointing and saw a narrow band of cleared area snaking through the trees generally towards the west. It seemed to wander back and forth in a roundabout way before disappearing into the trees around the lake. I realized that though we were only five or so miles from the lake it was going to be more than twice that by the road, probably because of detours around boulders, outcroppings and dense stands of trees. I could see why they were telling us that it might take a day or more after reaching the bottom of the pass to get to the lake. It was early morning and the sun was illuminating the whole western slope across the valley and it showed shear cliffs in some areas while others had wide tree studded ledges. Closer to the lake the land became forest-covered rolling hills. From my vantage point, high above it all, the whole thing looked like a giant oval bread bowl with the lake near it's center as a focal point, drawing my eyes again and again as the water glistened beckoningly. I could see areas along its edges that looked like gravel or sand beaches and as I followed it's shores north I could see where the river waters poured into it. White foam eddied for a distance into the lake but then gave way to glassy smoothness. To the south was another river that looked almost like a tail wagging away from the large body of water to wander through acres of low flat prairie. I could almost picture wheat growing there, ripe and golden in the sun. Many of the trees in the valley were evergreen and I could just imagine that it would look like a Christmas card picture during the wintertime. In paying closer attention though I could see large tracks of deciduous trees, some with their dead leaves still clinging, as do the oaks in the winter, lending their browns and reds to the panorama of greens and glistening silver and gold. From this height I couldn't tell what the trees were but I was looking forward to finding out. Looking down, trying to see into the shadows of the eastern slope below me I was given the impression of more rolling hills, some steeper than others. Still, the descent didn't look to be nearly as bad as some of the steep areas we'd already climbed. Except, that is, for the five hundred feet or so directly below me. I drew my eyes back to what I'd tried to ignore while looking at our new home, the initial gateway into the valley. I took a quick step backwards and gave my whole attention to what Mr. Hughes was trying to tell us.

It's the night before the day before New Years,,,, and we're busy busy busy making plans. It's the night before the day before New Years and we're doing every thing we can! Cleaning up the wagons and tying down lose gear, checking out the wheels as the day grows near. It's the night before the day before New Years and we're waiting for our brand new thread! Are you all ready to build homesteads? It won't be long now. I keep wondering what it would be like if we were actually in that Valley and spending New Years Day in a log cabin with snow more than likely piling up around us. It's not hard for me as we've had snow all day today. You still have time to enjoy your holidays before we put everyone back to work though and I want to wish everyone a Happy New Year. Enjoy yourselves but stay safe.

It makes excellent sense Ambergris but then I, too, am an old hand at using fireplaces. The lit piece of paper also works in wood stoves to get the chimney drawing before you light the fire. We won't have the priveledge of having newspaper in the Big Valley but twists of straw or dry grass will work as well. You really have to be careful not to be holding them when they burn down and be prepared to drop them onto your already laid fire. Doors on a fire place help with some of the room air draw. Most people that would be considering a life in that same Big Valley will not have the luxury of glass doors but one of the original buildings at the museum I used to work for has wooden doors on the large fireplace that work as effectively to stop heat loss during the night. They are not shut when the fire is actively buring but can be pulled slightly shut to form a shelter for cold people to set in front of the fireplace and get warmed. To shut them at night the fire is pushed to the back of the fireplace fairly early in the evening and allowed to burn to coals. Ashes are 'banked' around and over the ashes to 'hold' those coals from going out in the night and the doors are shut. Because the doors are not air tight the coals will not go out but will also not flare. In the morning there is almost always coals left to get the fire rekindled. I have more than once set a pot of oatmeal or other cereal grain to boil on the fire just before 'banking' the coals and then setting the covered pot off to the side near the back of the fire to finish cooking. Hot cereal for breakfast even before the fire is fully going. A pot of beans or a stew can be cooked the same way, especially when the occupants are going to be gone for the day and bank the coals as if it's night. A fireplace in a two story home also can be used as a smoker. A closely constructed closet is built next to the chimney in the upstairs room. Two doors, preferrably metal though it can be done with clay covered wood or cut stone, is set into the chimney at the top and bottom of the closet. The bottom one opens into the closet, the top one opens into the chimney (if they are not metal a way to hold the upper one will have to be devised). When you want to smoke foods you hang the meat or? in the closet on hooks. Then you open the door at the bottom allowing smoke to come into the closet. The top door is opened into the chimney, shutting the chimney in that area. The smoke is drawn into the closet at the bottom and out the door and back into the chimney at the top smoking the food as it passes. The one at the musuem I am describing works as beautifully now as it did a hundred fifty years ago. Remember though, we won't have 'bricks' at least to begin with though we should be able to manufacture them if we find clay. Many pioneer fire places and chimneys were made from stone and used clay or mud as mortar. Barring that, they were made with logs and sticks and were coated with mud or mud/straw mixture called daub. These chimneys were called daub and wattle. Not the safest but it worked. Wagoneers, doesn't this make you anxious to get your homes built? It does me. Our family has wood stoves and pipe along but fireplaces and stoves gives different cooking and heating options. I'll probably have both.

Ambergris, great info. Keep it coming. Someday that info will come in handy for a lot of us. (Especially those of us going to that Big Valley LOL) I used to use a bandaid can or tobacco can to make my chard cloth in but small tins are harder to find now. Thanks for the mint tin idea. I usually don't put a hole in my tins as the lids didn't fit snug enough to need them but the tighter mint tin would have an advantage of just the right amount of charring perhaps because of the control of the hole. I usually slip my tin of charred cloth into a heavy zip lock bag to keep everything dry after it's all cooled. I carry it with my flint and steel and magnesium starter and I now want one to carry with my 'click' sparker. (they are used for starting torches and such and work really well but you have to get the spark just right) I like the hot tub. I wonder if a person could do something similar with the 'fire box' under the barrel and the bottom of the barrel replaced with metal somehow? A grid placed on the bottom would keep your feet from touching the heat perhaps? You could then use the entire barrel and have more space to stand in. Have to be a pretty big barrel for me to crunch up in but standing would be nice too. Hmmmm lots of good ideas coming from this 'homework' Only a week or so left. Who SAYS I'm addicted??? Yup! research (ummm practice?),, that's what it is!

I agrree with Girlnextdoor, Leah,,,,,tell us anything you think of. Even if some of us know it, others will not and from the numbers it looks like we have a lot of readers. We never know when something we say might help someone out there. I like the idea of two outhouses, one close and one far. I also like the idea of a composting toilet so I don't have to go out at all. Nice to see some activity again. Won't be long now.....