I'm on a quest..

[Guest Guest]

I am working on coming up with a formula for an herbal "tonic" for the bird flu that I or you or anyone else can prepare here at home and continue to prepare & have on hand.

 

I'm not looking for a "magic cure" here. I am looking for something that *might* help us survive if the avian flu ever gets to a pandemic stage - and something that might help us feel better with other types of cold or flu viruses also.

 

So far, I have done tons of research on this. I have read about 100 studies, done by universities, govt studies, you name it... and believe me, I take *any* studies done by or sponsored by pharmaceutical companies with several grains of salt also (or the whole salt-shaker). I have run across all kinds of conflicting information, especially in places that are advertising their own products as "superior" to other products that are more widely available and/or cheaper.

 

I decided that, first of all, I better go and make sure I had the run-down on exactly how a flu virus works. So, How does a Flu Virus make you sick? Please bear with me if you know how a flu virus works, because I did not.

 

Flu viruses cannot replicate themselves by themselves. They have to have a little help. They have to be able to get into your cells (unlock the door), fuse themselves to the cell & borrow your "tools" to build more copies of itself, and then replicate, reproduce, and resend more copies out to invade other cells. So it does 3 things. It need 3 "glycoproteins" to do that. The virus floats along with 3 types of little spikes on the outside of it - these are the glycoproteins. The first one is called hemagglutinin - or HA. That is the one that "unlocks" your cell door. The second one is called the M2 protein. That helps the HA fuse itself to your cell & borrow your tools. The third one is called neuraminidase - or NA. That's the one that is responsible for replication/reproduction and releasing new virons.

 

Now, Amantadine and Rimantadine were created to stop the M2 protein, which works - except that that little M2 rascal is tricky. It mutates very easily so that it becomes resistant. Tamiflu is a neuraminidase inhibitor, or designed to stop the NA protein. Tamiflu works better because the NA protein has a *much* harder time with mutations - so that's why they are pinning a lot of their hopes on Tamiflu. That leaves ONE lonely little glycoprotein, the HA - which is the key for unlocking your cell doors to start with.

 

At this point, I have read pro's and con's about elderberry - one site quoting pubmed "studies" & articles as to why you should not use elderberry, echinacea, and several other standard herbs commonly used for flu because they would create the cytokine storm or make it worse. That confused me for sure. But the articles they referred to & the "studies" they quoted got me off an this tangent for reading all these other studies - because it said Elderberry would not only NOT cure bird flu - but it would make you sicker! That is not good because I have POUNDS of dried elderberries here..

 

During the course of all this research, I found a brand-new study with results released in Jan 2006 - done on a substance that binds itself to the HA protein, effectively stopping it from unlocking your cell doors. No unlock the door, no replication of flu, therefore no cytokine storm.

 

Here is an article about this study: <a href="http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2006/1/emw335082.htm" target="_blank">http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2006/1/emw335082.htm</a>

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">New research, carried out by Retroscreen Virology has indicated that Sambucol®, a patented formula, may fight the virulent Avian Flu virus. Results have been presented yesterday, Wednesday, in a press conference held in the Royal Society of Medicine, London. Speakers included Prof. Hannoun, Emeritus Professor at the Pasteur Institute and Dr. Mumcuoglu, developer of Sambucol®.

 

(PRWEB) January 21, 2006 -- Laboratory trials held in a leading research institute, Retroscreen Virology Ltd, associated with the University of London found Sambucol® to be at least 99% effective against the Avian Flu virus H5N1. Sambucol® was effective at significantly neutralising the infectivity of the virus in cell cultures. These results will also be presented during the International Conference on Bird Flu: “The First Pandemic of the 21st Century. A Central Role for Antivirals”, to be held at St. Bartholomew’s Hospital on January 19th-20th 2006.

 

Dr. Madeleine Mumcuoglu, is looking into further investigations into the activity of Sambucol® against Avian Flu on a wider scale. In an earlier study (1995) Sambucol® was found to be effective against a wide range of influenza strains. Laboratory studies conducted at the Hebrew University – Hadassah Medical School, Jerusalem demonstrated the activity of Sambucol® against human, swine, and avian influenza strains. Sambucol®'s efficacy was also demonstrated in two double blind, placebo controlled clinical studies. Sambucol® was shown to cut the duration and severity of the common flu by up to half.

 

Notes to editors; Sambucol® is based on an active substance isolated from the black elderberry.

Manufactured by Razei Bar Industries Israel, Sambucol® is available in 17 countries and in the UK is sold in Tesco, leading chemists, independent health food stores and wholesalers from £8.49.</div></div>

 

There is another and longer article here: <a href="http://www.althealth.co.uk/services/news/article.php?id=1856" target="_blank">http://www.althealth.co.uk/services/news/article.php?id=1856</a>

 

It pretty much says the same thing - only more.

 

<a href="http://www.villherb.com/elderberry.html" target="_blank">http://www.villherb.com/elderberry.html</a> also says this:

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One of the studies done on elderberry comes from Dr. Madeleine Mumcuouglu, Ph.D., a virologist based in Israel. What we call the flu comes from a family of viruses known as the myxoviruses influenzae. There are three types A, B and C of which A and B are the most common. Type A is the most prevalent in nature and most resilient but it cannot replicate itself. To reproduce it must invade living cells which it does through tiny spikes known as hemagglutinin that cover the surface of the virus and enable it to puncture the cell wall.

 

Dr. Mumcuoglu discovered that the active ingredients in elderberries neutralize the hemagglutinin by binding to them, thus stopping them from piercing the cell membrane and making it impossible for them to reproduce.

 

In addition, tests done to determine the presence of flu antibodies in humans showed that the level of antibodies was higher in those using elderberry than those receiving the placebo. This indicated an enhanced immune response. Echinacea has long been known by herbalists to help stimulate the immune system. Recent studies show that echinacea appears to work more effectively when taken at the first sign of a cold than when used as a daily preventative, which is something that I have noticed. It’s much easier to deal with a condition early then to wait until it overwhelms the body.

 

In a placebo-controlled, double-blind study based on early intervention [brinkeborn et al., 1998], 199 patients with colds took echinacea or a placebo at the first sign of a cold. Physicians judged echinacea extract effective in 68 percent of the cases, while 78 percent of patients considered it effective. The tablets contained a dosage of extract equivalent to around 240 mg of echinacea per day.

 

Brinkeborn R, Shah D, Geissbühler S, Degenring FH. Echinaforce® in the treatment of acute colds. Schweiz Zschr GansheitsMedizin 1998; 10: 26-29. </div></div>

 

It's my understanding they are hoping to complete in vitro testing on Sambucol this year. This also explains why there are so many stories from folks who lived through the Spanish flu & used elderberry tea, etc., but did not die of cytokine storm. One study I read said that they are figuring cytokine storm is the main reason that people are dying of H5N1, and the main reason they died in 1918/1919 Spanish flu and in the big SARS scare.

 

My hubby says, "If it were that easy, they would already know it". I don't think so. The world of "science" has poo-poo'ed at "herbal medications" for many years. It makes perfect sense to me. Tamiflu is based on an herbal ingredient also, that of star anise. But a shortage of star anise is one of the key reasons why there is a world-wide shortage of Tamiflu.

 

So here is what my list for this proposed tonic looks like so far.

 

1. Elderberries and echinacea for boosting the immune system.

 

2. Hawthorn berries for angiotension inhibitor (its the only herb I could find that does this - but there are probably others).

 

3. Antioxidant. Leaning toward vitamin C or ascorbic acid for this.

 

4. Fever reducer.

 

5. Pain reliever. (mullein?)

 

6. Anti-inflammatory.

 

(I'm thinking there *might* be something that will do triple-duty on fever, pain, and inflammation - but I don't want willow or a salicylate because I want to be able to give it to the grandkids).

 

7. Soothe respiratory tract/good for lungs. (Mullein, boneset, elencamp?)

 

8. Soothe sore throat & cough. Maybe cough should go with #7?

 

9. Controls diarrhea.

 

and There is what I have come up with so far. We may not be able to find a combination that will do *all* of the things on our list - but I think we can come dern close to it.

[Guest Guest]

So far, this is what I have come up with:

 

The tonic must have ingredients that will:

 

1. Boost the immune system - but not in too great of amounts, or not boost it TOO far with the aim in mind to minimize the chance of "cytokine storm". Echinacea, elderberry.

 

2. Include angiotensive inhibition which has been shown to act to mediate cytokine production, so cytokines are produced as needed and they don't get stuck in cytokine storm mode. Hawthorne berry is an angiotensin inhibitor but should not be taken in conjunction with prescription ACE inhibitors (meds that lower blood pressure or cholesterol) as it will increase their action.

 

3. Fever reducer: Raspberry, peppermint, spearmint, yarrow, or chamomile. Other herbs that will reduce fevers are Goldenseal, catnip, thyme, garlic. Personally, I think garlic would make the rest of the tonic taste really awful. So I'm leaning towards something from the first set *or* a combination of herbs in the first set.

 

4. Pain reliever. Mullein (sedative, mild narcotic) Most types of berries.

 

5. Anti-inflammatory. Cherries (tart). Most types of berries.

 

6. Soothe respiratory tract/good for lungs, expectorant: Mullein, comfrey.

 

7. Soothe sore throat & cough. Strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, and cherries. Comfrey is good for coughs, colds, anemia, and infections (also promotes healing).

 

8. Preservative (?) Not sure about this yet. Vitamin C, ascorbic acid, vitamin E (all found in strawberries & other berries)

 

9. Add anti-bacterial agent because neuraminidase also is a virulence factor for bacteria and this flu causes secondary bacterial infections such as pneumonia. Raspberries, mullein.

 

10. Inhibit or neutralize Neuraminidase. I have not a clue on this and may have to do without it. I know star anise will do this, but I wonder if it would be safer to add chinese 5-spice rather than try to order star anise, since there is apparently a shortage of it. We always have 5-spice on hand, and a bottle of it lasts us forever. ???

 

11. Inhibit or neutralize hemaggluttinin. Elderberry.

 

12. Antioxidants to Remove toxins and help mediate cytokine production: Tart cherries, all types of berries, raspberries, blackberries, strawberries, blueberries. Comfrey cleanses blood.

 

13. Antiviral: Strawberries.

 

14. Relieve nausea and diarrhea: raspberries, blackberries, strawberries, mullein.

 

 

So, how does it look so far?

[gardnmom]

I am not familiar with the interactions of the herbs, so I can not make comments on these combinations.

Sure hope it all comes together for you.

 

[Mother]

Actually, so far you have some good combinations. What form are you going to be using this combo? Will you use it as a dried mixture and make a tea from it or put it in capsules? All of these could be stored in their dry form except for the vitamin E if you use that. E, C and Garlic could be given separately and probably should as you may be using large doses of Vitamin C.

 

You could make a syrup of it all and use it that way but if so, how do you plan to keep it from spoiling? Canning it could destroy some of the necessary constituents in the products I'm afraid. You probably could use glycerin for making a syrup and I understand that keeps well but I've not used it. A vinegar might be one answer but most people would be adverse to taking it daily though even just the vinegar would be very good for them.

 

I take it you do not plan on this being a preventative? Though most of these are fairly safe herbs to take, I would be concerned about someone taking hawthorn daily if they actually didn't need to and most people do not need anodynes or sedatives daily. Comfrey, mullein and goldenseal and yarrow are also not something I would reccomend for people to take daily. Echinacea is a well known immune enhancer but is better taken two weeks on and then off at least a week or alternating with another immune enhancer such as astragalus or even goldenseal. Elderberry would most likely be the same but I know of no studies done on that. These are more medicinal herbs than nutritive ones IMHO.

 

I could see starting this when a pandemic is known to be starting though. The key to starting it would be much like the key to when to isolate to keep from being exposed to the flu. It's all a matter of timing.

 

Good job, honeybee

[Guest Guest]

Lois and Mother. You brought up some good points, Mother. I had planned on making two things, a tincture and a syrup. The alcohol in a tincture should keep it from spoiling. However, I am intolerant to alcohol and I don't want to give the grandkids an alcohol tincture either. So, I had been thinking to try canning the syrup, but I never thought about the canning process destroying some of the necessary constituents.

 

I have *most* of the dried ingredients on hand already and will soon order what I don't have.

 

I agree, it will not be a preventative tonic - but will be to use if/when the necessity arises. I also believe that hawthorn berries are not something a person would want to take on a regular basis unless you need them - and I may end up discarding them altogether from my list. I also agree that I would not want to take many of these other herbs on a daily basis, mullein, comfrey, yarrow, goldenseal, etc.

 

I am leaning towards peppermint/spearmint & raspberry on my fever reducers for that reason.

 

I agree, the herbs I am looking at are more medicinal than nutritive. Thanks for the pat on the back & the encouragement, Mother. I was beginning to wonder if I had posted it in the wrong forum or maybe had put my foot in my mouth in some way. I am by *NO* stretch of the imagination an expert on herbs. I am definitely an *amateur* herbalist, at best - which is why I am soliciting input from folks who know much more than I do about herbs. I do have a keen ability to research the most obscure things, though, and am like a pitbull when I get on the trail of something.

 

Yet I think that most folks are like me in that they are not professionals in herbal matters. However, I feel better doing something that might help my family rather than in doing nothing.

 

I still need to work out some of it, narrowing it down to exactly which herbs will go in, proportions, preparation, etc. and then there are folks who will not be able to use one or more things in it, like what if someone cannot tolerate elderberries, for example? What could you substitute?