Cowgirl

It will become sour as your local native yeasts colonize it. It takes several days. Flour and water should do the trick. You don’t need milk. Mine had milk only because I was not actually setting out to make sourdough. My milk did not ruin it. But creating traditional starter does not require milk.

@Annarchy I normally feed mine flour and water each day. The only time mine ever had milk was when I first made it by accident, when starting to make a deep dish pizza (I use milk in that recipe). If it grew and fell, then it used up what you fed it. Just stir it up and feed as usual tomorrow. It will be fine!

Another chicken feed that I mentioned in my first post is lambs quarters. This is a super nutritious annual “weed” that happily volunteers in many gardens. It can be eaten by humans in salads or as a cooked green prepared similar to spinach. This is another stealth garden crop. I let mine reseed around the compost pile and other spots on our property. My dad introduced me to this plant as a child. While it was never my favorite food, he told me it was an invaluable food if ever I needed to forage for food. It is a super food. It has a great vitamin and mineral profile and has a good protein content. The protein content by weight goes up when dried, of course. But even fresh it provides nice protein. Chickens love it fresh or dried like hay. You can cut some and hang it from the rafters for winter feed. Just be sure to allow some to mature and reseed for the coming year! Again, this is not a food widely known by most people. A few foodies will recognize it as edible. But the average person will not, particularly if it is growing as a “weed” somewhere other than an obvious garden bed. If it will grow in your area, you should definitely be sure not to remove it. It could quite literally save you from starvation. And it is free and healthy chicken feed.

We ended up going for our twilight walk in the forest preserve last night. We saw quite a few white tails on our walk, but we were greeted by a doe and her twin fawns at the park entrance. It was such a pleasant evening. The temperature had dropped to the lower 70’s and there was a lovely breeze.

Mulberries are healthy and, at least in the Midwest where I live, are wild fruits that will volunteer from seeds planted by wild birds. Rather than eradicate these little volunteer seedlings, transplanting them to an area of your land will give you fruit in about 3 years, particularly if you are able to water them and feed them a bit of manure. You can, relatively quickly, have a free orchard that can produce food for you and your chickens. This fruit may be eaten/fed fresh, made into jams or jellies, used for pies, or dried for later use. One advantage to mulberries is that they can be viewed as a sort of stealth orchard from a survivalist perspective. The average citizen does not view them as a food source. The average person does not know they are edible. Thus, a mulberry orchard is more likely to be left unstripped by thieves looking for food. I have several transplants at various stages of maturity, the oldest of which is 5 years from date of transplant. It was about 8 to 12 inches tall at time of transplant. The oldest tree began modest production at 3 years from date of transplant, and its production has gone up each year. It now stands as tall as our small barn. In the photo, that is the larger tree to the right. The other tree you can see was transplanted 2 years ago. The second tree was 6 inches tall at time of transplant. If you are not blessed with volunteer mulberries, they are available for sale as grafted fruit trees. I have never purchased a mulberry, but one advantage of such a tree would be that its berry size and flavor will be known. As with any other wild fruit seedling, there is considerable variation in fruit size and so on in wild types. Think of all the named apples in the grocery store as an example of that - wild apples from seed would be highly variable, with different tastes and sizes. The second photo is a closeup of a seedling mulberry that I need to transplant. I didn’t get to it last year. But this should help you to identify what you are looking for. We certainly have grafted fruit trees in our main orchard - cherries and apples. And we have an investment in those. They are staked, watered, pampered (and expensive) trees growing on dwarfing rootstocks. But I happen to like getting these free wild fruits! The wild mulberries, which I have scattered around the property, are my stealth orchard, in addition to being chicken feed producers. I have a few at pasture edges which are not watered and are slower growing, that are our reserve SHTF trees.

Oh wow, @Annarchy - I hate wind & dust storms. That dust makes it hard for me to breathe. I have only been through a few such storms and I am thankful we don’t get those here!!! We normally go for a twilight walk every evening at the forest preserve, but the storm system is lingering, and there is still some lightning. So I don’t know if we’ll get our walk tonight or not. Wish we could - it is so much cooler!

So, some people are feeding fermented feed to waterfowl: Anyone Doing Fermented Feed for Their Ducks? Fermented Feed

Thank you @Mt_Rider. I don’t have enough knowledge concerning fermented feeds and ducks and geese to answer that.

Wonderful news @Jeepers!!!!!!! It is smart to do both heat and A/C at once. That will give you some peace of mind. And it is good this will happen before you move in.

Well, a storm system came through and it went from hotter than blazes to 76. Not bad! Humidity is at about 100% but at least for the moment it is not so darned hot! When I realized there was a storm system headed our way, I put away my gardening tools and I ran around shutting and latching barn doors, garage door, etc. to help if high winds accompanied the storm. And I brought in dogs and puppies. Then I plugged in my cell phone. Lately we've lost power with storms and I wanted my phone battery topped off before the grid went down. Miraculously, the power is still on! *knocking on wood* But one last top off before the grid goes down is now on my list of things to do before a storm, especially since I now track such storms via a storm tracker app on my phone, so plenty of phone battery is more important than it used to be. Our satellite Internet went down, of course. It always does. It is fair weather internet only.

Like anything else on the homestead, including gardens, it is possible to blow a lot of money on your new hobby. It is also possible to raise healthy chickens and healthy food for your family quite frugally. In this post I am going to focus on feeding chicks frugally, and raising some of their feed on the homestead without becoming a grain farmer. After a predator disaster last year we rehomed the few survivors and set about reworking our outdoor chicken run. We examined it, figured out where we thought the predator had gotten in and rebuilt that portion of the run. Then we re-worked the rest of the run to hopefully keep our chickens SAFE. 7 weeks ago, the new chicks arrived. Buff Orpingtons. I had buffs years ago and really liked them. I decided to return to that breed. They are a good layer of BIG brown eggs. They are friendly birds and pleasant to work around. They are not aggressive and quite safe for grandkids. And they make good mothers. I ordered 14 pullets and 1 roo. One chick didn’t survive. I think I ended up with 12 pullets and 2 roos, but time will tell. I am not an expert at sexing chicks, but I am pretty sure I have 2 roos. We’ll see. Likely one will be a roaster as I do not need 2 Roos. Previously, I had tried fermenting chicken feed but quit because it made my house smell like I was trying to make whiskey. In the summer, one can ferment outside. In our climate, though, fermented feed does better indoors in the winter. And I don’t like my house stinking! So for some years I had compromised by feeding my chickens wet mash, which provides some benefits, but nowhere near as good as fermented feed. Nowadays, though, I have a sourdough starter that lives in our kitchen. Its smell is NOT objectionable. I decided to use that to start fermented chick feed. Because the sourdough starter was strong, it fully fermented the chick feed in 24 hours. So, I began feeding the chicks fermented feed and replenishing the chick starter daily, just as I do my sourdough. I presently use a glass juice decanter with a stopper lid that allows the fermenting gases to escape if needed, so there is no worry of an explosion when I open the jar each day! Fermenting the feed does several things. It removes the anti nutrients that are present in grains, thus making the vitamins and minerals that are in the feed more bioavailable to the bird - the nutrients go into the bird rather than through the bird and out the other end. It adds B vitamins. It adds probiotics that eliminate any need for medicated feed - the probiotics provide a healthy gut and coccidia cannot get a foothold to cause illness. Studies show that birds raised on fermented feeds are healthier, produce more and healthier eggs, NEED LESS FEED (because the feed they are eating is so much more nutritious), and produce over a longer time. All this for a very minimal amount of work. It saves considerable money to feed fermented feed, since they need less of it. So it is a win-win proposition to do this. I am happy to report that my new fermentation method is much easier to live with than my previous method - no objectionable smell. Each morning after I feed the chicks, I add equal parts commercial flock raiser and water to the fermenting jar, stir it into the remnants of the previous day’s ferment, put the lid on, and set it at the back of the counter for tomorrow. I have acquired a gallon jar I will use when the chicks get bigger. Right now I am feeding the chicks about 2-1/2 cups of commercial feed per day. That is for 14 chicks (7 weeks old), feathered out and growing FAST. That feed, when fermented, is at least doubled in volume when fed. That gets supplemented with an armload of fresh greens - lambs quarters, lemon balm, oregano, etc. Plus they get leftovers from the kitchen and garden. Plus they get things like mulberries. I love free fruit. When we moved in 5 years ago yesterday, we were busy moving, of course. But one of the first things we did, besides plant my transplants (I brought a bunch of plant starts from our last place), was to dig up a mulberry seedling that was growing next to the house foundation and transplant that over by the chicken run. My DH thought it was silly, that such a tiny thing wouldn’t produce anything useful anytime soon, especially not being a grafted tree like a commercial fruit tree (those produce fruit young because they are an old tree on new roots). I watered it and also gave it chicken manure feedings from time to time. Now it is as tall as the barn and has been producing berries for several years. I like the extended harvest - they do not all ripen at once. They are healthy fruits. Birds love them, and that includes chickens. Though it is tall, I don’t worry about it. It is a wild tree. I am not trying to harvest ALL the fruit. The wild birds are welcome to help harvest the branches I cannot reach. It produces plenty on its lower branches. We eat some. The chicks eat quite a lot of them. I have considered dehydrating some of the mulberries for out of season feeding, and I may do that next year. I have a 2 year old transplant that should be starting to produce next year, and the harvestable mulberries will be increasing. If you have the space somewhere on your property, I heartily recommend transplanting “weedy” mulberries there. Chickens also love garden waste: weeds, bugs, veggies and fruits that aren’t quite table perfect. Also, they love most of the things you do. So if you have some uneaten food on your plate, don’t compost it - let the chickens have it first, and compost their waste. They won’t eat some things -pickles, onions, and so on. But most things they will eat. Like most animals (including me) chocolate can harm them. So if you eat chocolate (I cannot as I am deathly allergic), do not give it to chickens. Don’t give them nasty science experiments from the back of the fridge, but they will enjoy a bit of stale bread soaked in sour milk. They can, in other words, get good food value out of things that you might otherwise throw away. They will eat leftover meats also, although in our house those scraps go to the dogs. Chickens will also eat some hay. In the fall we rake up leaves and put those in the outdoor run. The chickens love digging through them for bugs, bug eggs, etc. Similarly, they love grass clippings, if you have any to spare. I use grass clippings as mulch for the garden, but occasionally rake some up for the birds. While I do not presently produce all of the feeds our chickens eat, I produce a substantial portion. In a SHTF situation it is helpful to know what you can do to keep your birds going. And, even in normal times, it helps to be able to produce your eggs (and meat) more frugally. Things to stock for your chickens if you plan on raising some or all of their feed: - oyster shell or other calcium source for laying hens - good source of minerals and micronutrients such as dried kelp - grit if your soil is not naturally gravelly- so your birds can eat your home raised feeds Hope this helps someone.

@Momo my heart goes out to you and Mr. Momo. 8 hours in the ER is no picnic in the park! Glad you had a nice Fourth dinner. Wow. We have German Shepherds. If one company won’t insure us because we have GSDs another will. I wouldn’t get rid of them. Fortunately there are still insurance companies that don’t care what animals you have.

@kappydell I hope Mary’s disability claim is granted soon. Just be aware that even if it is denied initially, it may well be awarded to her if she appeals. My garden has gotten ahead of me even though I haven’t left home! It has been difficult for me to keep up with it in this HEAT.

Yeah. It is brutally hot here. April was record breaking cold and snow. May was record breaking dry. June was record breaking rain. Now we have unusual heat and it is bone dry. I freaking hate climate change.

Nice! I have been shopping at ALDI’s more, recently, as there is one two towns away, and the WM is almost twice as far. I have been meaning to make a big trip to WM. Sounds like I need to compare prices.

Interesting about the rich potato water, @Mt_Rider! Years ago I made potato bread. It was good. Now you have me thinking about how that might interact with the sourdough. Hmmmmm.

Happy birthday @snapshotmiki

I made my starter sort of by accident. I started to make a deep dish pizza, with regular yeast. But life happened and I didn’t get it made. A couple of days went by. My pizza dough was soured. I pondered what to do. Well, I had always wanted to get into sourdough. But for whatever reason, I had been somewhat intimidated by it. But here I had a clearly soured dough. So, I made bread. It was SOUR. But I also set aside a little of the dough, added water and a bit of flour, and began to feed and water my new pet daily. And in playing with it and experimenting a bit, I have gotten to where I can make some really tasty bread. So, if you want to get a starter and you have a bit of yeast, my advice is to start to make bread, and ... don’t.

I am surprised about some of these zero points foods. Greens are obvious —it would be very difficult to gain weight by eating too many greens. But chicken, yogurt, eggs - they are healthy, but not super low calorie. One could gain weight eating lots and lots of these. So when I have put healthy meals together, I will have one chicken thigh, but a huge salad, with salsa for dressing. This list makes it sound like one could fill up on lots of chicken. Not sure about that... hmmmm. I suppose, though, if one ate lots of chicken it would trigger a fullness response faster. Sort of like the Paleo diet. And I have known people to lose weight on meat and cheese, so I suppose that’s actually a reasonable list.

I can’t answer potato water. I keep my starter in a quart canning jar. Every day I add 1/4 cup flour and 1/4 cup water and shake it vigorously. I then loosen the lid a little to allow fermentation gas escape. Every 2 days or so I take 1 cup starter for bread. I *NEVER* throw starter away. There are many things you can do with the starter if you don’t want to make bread. I used it in muffins, pancakes, etc. If I need a break, I can refrigerate it. But mostly it is in use. When my chicks arrived, I used the starter to jumpstart fermented chick feed. And, by the way, fermenting chicken feed saves lots of money on feed!

Wow. Other than cheese, bread, and occasional treats, and a rare glass of wine, that is what I eat.

I have been trying to make healthier choices in the foods I eat, although admittedly I still do not eat a “perfect” diet. Slowly I have dropped from a size 12 to a size 8. I did not do this specifically for weight loss, which is why I don’t have a pounds number to report. This may sound bizarre, but I do not own a scale. I really don’t have a clue as to how many pounds I have lost. The only metric I have is the size clothes that currently fit me. Instead, I made the diet changes to try to be healthier. One benefit of this has been weight loss. The major benefit, though, has been that I feel better. I looked up the zero points foods — fruits and vegetables, salads and salsas are all things I have been eating more of, and filling up on, so yes, I agree with Weight Watchers — you can fill up on foods like that and lose weight without counting calories.

Prayers for you both. Fire season sounds so scary! Be safe.

Good to see you!

Eeep! Stay safe.