My Amish family members...

[Guest Guest]

I've had questions from time to time about this, so I figured I'd just go ahead and write it out.

 

I love all my family, and though I find my kids don't appreciate their Amish relatives as much as I do, maybe they'll grow to appreciate them later. I grew up with them in my life and they're important to me.

 

My Dear Husband wanted a small wedding, and he said that we could just go as far as inviting the Aunts & Uncles & Cousins as a way to "limit" the guest list. (DH has 2 cousins.) Boy, did I laugh!!!

[Synn]

OK leave it to me to ask the first dumb question.. Do they believe that works get them into heaven? Do they believe in Jesus?

[Guest Guest]

This is as I understand it:

 

Yes, they believe Jesus is the Son of God. They believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God.

 

But when I've asked if they believe they're going to heaven, all I ever get is "I hope so".

 

This could be an expression of humility or a real concern; I've never quite understood it.

 

It leads me to suspect that many might equate entering heaven with "Did I DO well enough? Did I follow the rules well enough?"

 

As I've seen the Amish, they follow the rules of the church as laid out by their Bishops, and the Bishops of their areas determine the "rate" of modernization.

 

So you will find many differences in different areas. The Amish from our area can be almost shunned by the Amish in other areas just because our Amish use rubber on the buggy tires! (I wonder what they'd say if they knew many now use cell phones!! These are usually the poorest and least educated, even mentally incompetant, families.

 

In my relatives, there are a few relatively mild "stinkers", but as a whole they're pretty good, intelligent people who married well. I believe my grandparents must have valued education, even though the children end school at age 16.

 

 

 

[Synn]

Ok this I have to know.. Are all Amish women submissive to all men? Have you ever heard one sass their husbands?? And is it true that even though you weren't born Amish you can become Amish?

Thanks for answering all my silly questions Cat.. I have been drawn to the Amish for over 10 years now.. I realize that no one is perfect.. But their work ethics and family values are something to be admired.

[ricardo]

Butter, you just keep asking away. I like your questions.

I would also like to know these things.

 

 

 

[Synn]

Cat I hope I am not bothering you asking all these questions..

[Guest Guest]

Nope, no problem at all. I just haven't taken the time to respond; I've been basically racing through here. I like to think a bit about some things before I post.

 

I'm in the middle of something at home right now, so I'll edit this post tonight & post a clear post.

 

 

[Synn]

Thanks!

[redhenfarm]

Cat, This is fascinating and Buttercup asks good questions.

I just love Beverly Lewis's books. She has several series and they are based on her Amish/Mennonite family members. She has a couple of series and is starting a new one. Anyway, if I can just say what she said in one of her books is the Amish believe it is arrogant to say you know you are saved. They don't believe you can claim that. However, in her stories many of the community were true believers - just not able to talk about it with everyone. From her books I gather things change from time to time due to necessity and by the authority of their bishop. For example in one book a young man is shunned because he was accepted into the church in one community (PA) and then had the opportunity to go to another (Ohio) to apprectice as a carpenter. He is shunned in PA because he went somewhere else. In another book it comes to pass that some children are born with birth defects from too close inbreeding so that bishop decides to do a "swap" of marriagable young men in another state to avoid the problem of birth defects.

Cat, I think it's wonderful that your father was honored in such a way at his funeral.

Did your father become "english" in all ways or did he retain some things from his upbringing?

Oh, I hope your Amish relatives will write down their recipes.

 

[Synn]

Beverly Lewis is my favorite author of fiction books! I have 3 different series and a few of her singles..

[ricardo]

Quote:

Beverly Lewis is my favorite author of fiction books! I have 3 different series and a few of her singles..

I would have to say The Reckoning would have to be my
favorite of hers.

When we go to Lehman's the girls pick out a few books.

We have some books by Mary Christner Borntrager and some
by Carrie Bender.

The girls aren't really interested in them but it's
something for them to read on the way home and I get
to read them later.

[Synn]

Have you ever read the Sunroom? OH man I cried.. OOPS sorry this should not be in this forum.. Need to go to the book one! LOL.

[kaseyb (Supermom!)]

Ah! Cat, this is a fantastic thread!

 

I just finished reading the book titled Sanctuary by Beverly and David Lewis and highly recommend it to any who are interested. A great Hallmark movie some of you may want to put on your Christmas wish list is Harvest of Fire. http://www.martakristen.com/marta/film/fire/

 

Some here who have read a few of my posts know that I am grateful to have a wonderful husband and children, but I have precious few extended relatives; the same with my husband. So I will readily admit that the "community" the Amish people enjoy is very appealing to me. Sometimes I dream of what it would be like to have close relationships with nearby neighbors and a strong sense of sisterhood with many in my local community.

 

But the only way that can truly be is if similar values are shared and shared deeply.....which is what the Amish cherish and work hard to uphold.

 

I have noticed that certain dynamics come into play whenever people form "groups." Pecking orders are established and rules for all to follow. In some groups the rules are more out in the open, while in others the rules are unsaid, but nonetheless present. In some groups violation of rules is sternly punished, while in others violation appears less punishing, but nevertheless carries some sort of penalty. Shunning is openly acknowledged amongst the Amish as being one such punishing tool, but I believe it happens in all kinds of groups to differing degrees.

 

In Amish communities "shunning" is officially carried out by powers on high. The people fear the shunning as it cuts them off from those they fellowship with. In other types of groups, whether they be religious or not, shunning in the form of "snubbing" is often carried out. I've seen it happen in garden clubs, churches, secular gatherings, etc. It just seems to be a part of human nature. In most cases, I'm not exactly sure what purpose it upholds except to impose an artificial impression of unity. Or perhaps to fulfill some inner desire to feel better than another.

 

At the same time, we even see the principle of shunning in scripture where Paul admonished one church to avoid a man who was living with his mother and evidently having sex with her. Paul indicated the people should avoid this man because not only could they be tempted towards sin themselves by spending time with this person, they would also give the man the idea that he was without sin. This, Paul contended, would only lead him further down the path of error. In essence, the "shunning" in this case was done to protect the innocence of others and to hopefully bring the sinner to repentance. It was out of love and concern. It was justified and understandable since, as other scriptures indicate, the man was kindly approached by others prior to this shunning occurring....in the hope he would repent and turn from his sin.

 

Cat, my sense from what I know of the Amish and other groups is that we humans can sometimes set up artificial boundaries for what is acceptable and what is not. Just as Tevye did in Fiddler on the Roof we do this, in part, to establish a sense of communal self, an extension of who we are in affecting the entire community around us.....so that we can feel comfortable. This happens amongst secular liberals, homosexuals, religious groups, etc. Everyone has a need for a community of shared values, if for no other reason than to feel like we are not alone.

 

Just consider this issue of survival: the primary reason we're all here on this board. We all yearn for a sense of community in shared concerns and values. Many of us regret not having such community in our own neighborhoods. So we come here.

 

Personally, if the Amish had fewer artificial expectations I would be seriously tempted to become one. There is a thin line between legalism and truly discerning God's intent that is important to distinguish. I understand and respect the Amish people's need to hold the fabric of their culture together though. There is much we can learn from them and do. I think all groups impose some level of artificial expectation on their members simply because fallible humans are at the helm. What is remarkable is that so many Christian church denominations with some differences still have in common the primary tenets of the faith....in spite of the shared humanity. Makes you wonder if there's a God at the helm of a creation groaning for redemption....

 

One thing I find very enticing about the Amish is the fact they've placed their priorities on relationship with God and with each other. Our culture places priorities on obtaining things, jobs, status, stuff and more stuff, etc. People come second. Our culture, as a result, is full of very, very busy people....too busy to take time out to have folks over for dinner to just sit around by the fire and talk.

 

The Amish are just as busy. They're just busy doing more things together in the hope they are pleasing God in the process.

 

Perhaps they pay more attention to the "details" than do many in today's society.

[ricardo]

Quote:

One thing I find very enticing about the Amish is the fact they've placed their priorities on relationship with God and with each other. Our culture places priorities on obtaining things, jobs, status, stuff and more stuff, etc. People come second. Our culture, as a result, is full of very, very busy people....too busy to take time out to have folks over for dinner to just sit around by the fire and talk.

That's why I love Thanksgiving! We all get together
and talk and eat. It seem this day and age the only
time we get together with family, family that lives
in our own town, is for birthdays and holidays. The
rest of the time everyone is too busy. Ok, I'm done.

[kaseyb (Supermom!)]

Agreed Grubby. You're right.

 

We don't have many extended relatives to get together with so we try to create a sense of community here amongst friends. But it's not easy. We've made it a family mission to have lots and lots of people over to our home for dinners. It's really the only way I know of to really get to know people. The sad thing is that most of the people we have over have to be invited as much as a month in advance so they can get us on their schedules! And then, of course, they never have time to have others to their home or do other things together, so it's hard to develop a friendship. Relationships always take time to form. Where I live shopping is what many seem to live for. Sometimes I think the instantaneous and easy nature of shopping appeals to some people more than working at relationships.

 

Many people get together in clubs or large group settings and they have their place, but if that's all there is.....

 

Frustrating for sure. We just keep having folks over and spend some time helping in the community. I think if tv sets and malls were closed for one month it would go a long way towards helping people finally focus on each other. Maybe that's one reason the Amish shy away from electronic gadgetry.