Keeping Medications Cool Without Refrigeration

[Abigail]

FYI, everyone!

 

http://www.coolerconcept.com/

 

This is designed to keep insulin cool w/o refrigeration, but could work for any other med. Compact, good for travel/evacuation...

[Lois]

Thank you, excellant info there

[PureCajunSunshine]

Great find, Abi!!!!

 

 

Here's what they say:

 

FRIO How It WorksFrio Duo Pen

 

"To activate your Frio Wallet, it is simply immersed in cold water for 5-15 minutes (depending upon the size.) Crystals contained in the panels of the Wallet then expand into a gel-like substance, and remains in this form for several days. Once activated, the Frio wallet should be removed from the water and towel dried. It should then be left for a minimum of 10 minutes (longer if possible) so that all the excess moisture held in the fabric is also absorbed. Now you can place it into The Cover."

 

 

 

I looked everywhere on the site for pricing info...not listed. I have not called/emailed them, but I suspect it might be expensive, or else they would advertise it?

 

HMMMM...Now, don't that sound a lot like the gel-crystal stuff that is sewed into rolled up bandanas, and sold at many fairs and festivals, to keep cool?? It works by soaking up cold water and retaining the cold temp for a time...

 

The FRIO works if you immerse it into COLD water...but if you don't have cold water to begin with, then I suspect that it won't be a whole lot cooler than the temperature of the water...

 

 

[PureCajunSunshine]

In an austere situation without cool water...

 

Maybe the gel crystals could be activated in water that has been cooled in a zeer pot kind of setup? (there's a thread here somewhere about keeping food that way) Or maybe in water that has cooled outside overnight?

 

And if night temps are above (xyz) degrees...well then, yer busted!!

[Abigail]

Hmmmmm.....if it relies on COLD water, there may be a way around that in real times:

 

Have you watched "Jericho?" They had this episode where they made ice with a metal bowl full of fertilizer...floated another metal bowl with plain water in it. Don't know if this is "artistic licence" or not, but did a google on it; apparently enquiring minds wanted to know: Here's one discussion:

 

Quote:

MHSC11-11-2006, 12:04 PM

This week they were making ice for the mayor who had a high fever from a bad case of the flu. It was done by floating metal bowls filled with water in fertilizer.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MHSC11-11-2006, 12:43 PM

I found this online at http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/jun99...75573.Ch.q.html

 

I am trying to learn how to make ice without

using any machinery. on the internet it said to use the

following .

1- mix up in large container a mild solution of water and

sulphuric acid, with a handful of sodium sulphate (Gluaber Salt)

thrown in.

2- Then place a smaller container filled with the water to be

frozen in the solution. The water will soon freeze.

 

 

My questions:

1: If I want to freeze a 1 gallon plastic jug, how much

water,sulphuric acid and salt do I need? The article said

Glauber Salt, will any type of Salt do?

How long will it take?

 

Another article said the following.

1: use a chemical process such as vinegar and baking soda to

generate CO2.

Since the CO2 is heavier than air, it should replace the air in

the inside container. As the CO2 is generated into the

container, it should freeze.

 

question:

1- to make dry ice using vinegar and baking soda solution- how

much of each is needed?

2- If I want to make a Gallon of this solution how long will it

take to freeze? what will be the proper amounts of vinegar and

baking soda in a 1 gallon plastic jug?

 

I live in the tropics. Last year the people of Puerto Rico

almost killed each other over a bag of ice when the hurricane hit

this island. If you can tell me how to make a simple solution

that can make ice be it dry ice or

regular ice you will be helping a lot of people who live in a hot

climate.

 

And this was the reply

 

These chemical recipes for making ice are fine for demonstration purposes

with small quantities, but rather inefficient and expensive when scaled up

to try to use them for any practical purposes.

 

The Glauber's salt recipe that you have come across does specifically

require that Glauber's salt be used. No other salt will do. The chemical

process is

 

Glauber's salt + sulfuric acid solution --> sodium bisulfate + water

Na2SO4.10H2O (solid) + H2SO4 (aq) --> 2 NaHSO4 (solid) + 10 H2O (liq)

 

This reaction will take in about 105 kJ of heat from the surrounding

environment per mole of reactants. Scaling this up, we arrive at

330 kJ of heat per kg of Glauber's salt and 300 g of sulfuric acid. For the

sulfuric acid to be truly "aqueous", it would need to be in at least 1

litre of water. Any less water, and heat would actually be given out when

any residual sulfuric acid reacted with water released by the reaction. But

of course too much water would lead to sodium bisulfate being formed in

solution rather than as a solid.

 

If you are operating in Puerto Rico, I would suppose that the water you can

get hold of during a power failure would be at about 25 deg C, so the 1

liter (plus) of cooling solution would itself need to be chilled from that

temperature to about -5 deg C in order to do any freezing. That would

require at least 1 kg * 4.184 kJ/kg/deg C * 30 deg C = 125 kJ of heat to be

removed, leaving up to 200 kJ maximum of potential heat removal to do your

freezing. By the time we have allowed for heat losses in the apparatus, and

the fact that it might be necessary to use slightly more water in

proportion, a realistic figure might be 120 kJ.

 

Another recipe that I am personally more familiar with, and that may well

work better for your purposes is simply to take the coolest available

water, and try to dissolve up some ammonium nitrate in it. Ammonium nitrate

is a commonly available nitrogen fertilizer. It is very soluble. 1 kg of

ammonium nitrate will dissolve in 1 litre of water. It will remove about

28 kJ of heat from the surroundings per mole of ammonium nitrate, which

works out at 350 kJ per kg of ammonium nitrate -- very similar to the

Glauber's salt system. Obviously you would need to get hold of your

ammonium nitrate in a powdered form of some sort, rather than in a slow

dissolving, slow release form.

 

How much freezing will 120 kJ of heat removal do? If we take 1 gram of

water at 25 deg C, we need to remove 4.184 * 25 = 104.6 joule to chill it

to water at 0 deg C, and then 334 joule to freeze that water -- 449 joule

per gram = 0.449 kJ per gram. 120 kJ is therefore enough heat removal to

freeze 120/0.449 = 267 gram of water.

 

1 imperial gallon of water is about 4520 gram; 1 american gallon is

therefore about 3620 gram. Puerto Rico sounds more American than imperial,

so I'll guess that you mean the latter ;-)

 

That would mean a scale-up by a factor of about 14: You need either

 

14 kg of Glauber's salt in 14-20 litres of previously made up dilute

sulfuric acid (20 to 25% by volume of concentrated sulfuric in water, or

about one part of water to 2 parts of battery acid. NB extreme care

required -- a lot of heat is given off when sulfuric acid and water are

mixed. Always add acid to water, slowly.)

 

or

 

14 kg of ammonium nitrate fine crystals in 14 litres of water.

 

A plastic jug is a bad way to go -- the plastic is an insulator, and the

jug shape is bad for heat removal from the centre. You need at least one

small dimension for rapid heat exchange. A number of smaller containers or

a book-shaped thin rectangular container would be better.

 

------

 

The second part of your recipe about dry ice seems to me to be nonsense.

Yes, it is possible to remove heat with a reaction that produces a gas,

like the vinegar/carb soda reaction. But to make dry ice you need to

achieve temperatures of -80 deg C, and there is no way you are going to do

that in or near an aqueous environment (and especially not in Puerto

Rico!;-)

 

WAIT!!!!!I remember now!! We discussed this on another thread:

 

http://www.mrssurvival.com/forums/ubbthrea...t&Number=153992

 

Oh...gotta give the credit to another discussion that led me to the link!! Amazing what our discussions lead us to, huh?

 

In the Home Alone thread over in The Edge, Becca_Anne mentioned this: http://www.survivalblog.com/ and it led me to this one: http://www.coolerconcept.com/

[PureCajunSunshine]

This might be worthy of experimentation...

 

Looking a little further into this possibility, I see fine grade ammonium nitrate can be bought from places like chemical/lab supply outfits..

 

I'm not sure if "BiotechGrade" is the really fine stuff that is called for, or not...but a little time, a little more research...anyone?

 

 

 

SPECTRUM LABORATORY PRODUCTS INC.

14422 S. SAN PEDRO STREET

GARDENA, CA 90248

http://www.spectrumchemical.com

Phone 800.813.1514

 

 

Ammonium Nitrate, BiotechGrade

500 GM A1216-10 $68.00

 

...as listed on this page:

http://www.spectrumchemical.com/retail/pro...2&cCurTotal=136

 

For safety's sake...check out the MSDS (material safety data sheet).

 

There's lots more to it, but in part, it reads:

 

"Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation (lung irritant).

Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (permeator). Prolonged exposure may result in skin burns and

ulcerations. Over-exposure by inhalation may cause respiratory irritation."

 

[Abigail]

Well, I'd lean towards seeing if any fertilizer you normally use has as its active ingredient ammonium nitrate; that way you could just use a little for an experiment with the icemaking, and even if it failed you could still use it for your lawn or garden. I'm just getting started with gardening and use the ever-popular Miracle-Gro. Works great on annuals and perennials. Here's info on it:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle-Gro

 

Has something called "Ammonical Nitrogen;" that may be a little different.

 

Hey: WATCH YOUR BACK!!! Big Brother may be watching; that's the stuff they make bombs with!!!! You may find the "Men in Black" at your door, when you wanted to make ice!!!

 

I think I'd stick to the regular fertilizer.....LOL!!!!!!

[cookiejar]

Aren't the prices on that product page? From the link at the top of the webpage?

I saw a wallet for $27

is it the same thing?

[PureCajunSunshine]

I found this article at this great website http://www.shtfinfo.com

 

 

A SOLAR AMMONIA ABSORPTION ICEMAKER

 

Article by Jaroslav Vanek, Mark "Moth" Green, Steven Vanek

Home Power #53 • June / July 1996

 

 

 

The article is in a pdf document, complete with photos, diagrams, etc. on this page:

 

http://www.shtfinfo.com/shtffiles/how_to/

 

(Sorry this is a cut and paste job from a pdf document, not too neatly I'm afraid. It is for the benefit for those who may not be able to download pdf documents...)

 

 

Everywhere in our world, refrigeration is a major energy user. In poor areas, “off-

grid” refrigeration is a critically important need. Both of these considerations

point the way toward refrigeration using renewable energy, as part of a

sustainable way of life. Solar-powered refrigeration is a real and exciting possibility.

 

Working with the S.T.E.V.E.N. Foundation (Solar

Technology and Energy for Vital Economic Needs), we

developed a simple ice making system using ammonia

as a refrigerant. Aprototype of this system is currently

operating at SIFAT(Servants in Faith and Technology),

a leadership and technology training center in Lineville,

Alabama. An icemaker like this could be used to

refrigerate vaccines, meat, dairy products, or

vegetables. We hope this refrigeration system will be a

cost-effective way to address the worldwide need for

refrigeration. This icemaker uses free solar energy, few

moving parts, and no batteries!

Types of Refrigeration

Refrigeration may seem complicated, but it can be

reduced to a simple strategy: By some means, coax a

refrigerant, a material that evaporates and boils at a low

temperature, into a pure liquid state. Then, let’s say you

need some cold (thermodynamics would say you need

to absorb some heat). Letting the refrigerant evaporate

absorbs heat, just as your evaporating sweat absorbs

body heat on a hot summer day. Since refrigerants boil

at a low temperature, they continue to evaporate

profusely — thus refrigerating — even when the milk or

vaccines or whatever is already cool. That’s all there is

to it. The rest is details.

One of these details is how the liquid refrigerant is

produced. Mechanically driven refrigerators, such as

typical electric kitchen fridges, use a compressor to

force the refrigerant freon into a liquid state.

Heat-driven refrigerators, like propane-fueled units and

our icemaker, boil the refrigerant out of an absorbent

material and condense the gaseous refrigerant to a

liquid. This is called generation, and it’s very similar to

the way grain alcohol is purified through distillation.

After the generation process, the liquefied refrigerant

evaporates as it is re-absorbed by an absorbent

material. Absorbent materials are materials which have

a strong chemical attraction for the refrigerant.

This process can be clarified using an analogy: it is like

squeezing out a sponge (the absorbent material)

soaked with the refrigerant. Instead of actually

squeezing the sponge, heat is used. Then, when the

sponge cools and becomes “thirsty” again, it reabsorbs

the refrigerant in gas form. As it is absorbed, the

refrigerant evaporates and absorbs

heat: refrigeration!

In an ammonia absorption

refrigerator, ammonia is the

refrigerant. Continuously cycling

ammonia refrigerators, such as

commercial propane-fueled

systems, generally use water as the

absorbent, and provide continuous

cooling action.

The S.T.E.V.E.N.Solar Icemaker

We call our current design an

icemaker. It’s not a true refrigerator

because the refrigeration happens

in intermittent cycles, which fit the

cycle of available solar energy from

day to night. Intermittent absorption

systems can use a salt instead of

water as the absorbent material.

This has distinct advantages in that

the salt doesn’t evaporate with the

water during heating, a problem

encountered with water as the

absorber.

Our intermittent absorption solar icemaker uses calcium

chloride salt as the absorber and pure ammonia as the

refrigerant. These materials are comparatively easy to

obtain. Ammonia is available on order from gas

suppliers and calcium chloride can be bought in the

winter as an ice melter.

The plumbing of the icemaker can be divided into three

parts: a generator for heating the salt-ammonia mixture,

a condenser coil, and an evaporator, where distilled

ammonia collects during generation. Ammonia flows

back and forth between the generator and evaporator.

 

The generator is a three-inch non-galvanized steel pipe

positioned at the focus of a parabolic trough collector.

The generator is oriented east-west, so that only

seasonal and not daily tracking of the collector is

required. During construction, calcium chloride is

placed in the generator, which is then capped closed.

Pure (anhydrous) ammonia obtained in a pressurized

tank is allowed to evaporate through a valve into the

generator and is absorbed by the salt molecules,

forming a calcium chloride-ammonia solution (CaCl2 -

8NH3).

The generator is connected to a condenser made from

a coiled 21 foot length of non-galvanized, quarter-inch

pipe (rated at 2000 psi). The coil is immersed in a water

bath for cooling. The condenser pipe descends to the

evaporator/collecting tank, situated in an insulated box

where ice is produced.

Operation

The icemaker operates in a day/night cycle, generating

distilled ammonia during the daytime and reabsorbing it

at night. Ammonia boils out of the generator as a hot

gas at about 200 psi pressure. The gas condenses in

the condenser coil and drips down into the storage tank

where, ideally, 3/4 of the absorbed ammonia collects by

the end of the day (at 250 degrees Fahrenheit, six of

the eight ammonia molecules bound to each salt

molecule are available).

As the generator cools, the night cycle begins. The

calcium chloride reabsorbs ammonia gas, pulling it

back through the condenser coil as it evaporates out of

the tank in the insulated box. The evaporation of the

ammonia removes large quantities of heat from the

collector tank and the water surrounding it. How much

heat a given refrigerant will absorb depends on its “heat

of vaporization,” — the amount of energy required to

evaporate a certain amount of that refrigerant. Few

materials come close to the heat of vaporization of

water. We lucky humans get to use water as our

evaporative refrigerant in sweat. Ammonia comes close

with a heat of vaporization 3/5 that of water.

During the night cycle, all of the liquefied ammonia

evaporates from the tank. Water in bags around the

tank turns to ice. In the morning the ice is removed and

replaced with new water for the next cycle. The ice

harvesting and water replacement are the only tasks of

the operator. The ice can either be sold as a

commercial product, or used in a cooler or old-style ice-

box refrigerator.

Under good sun, the collector gathers enough energy to

complete a generating cycle in far less than a day,

about three hours. This allows the icemaker to work

well on hazy or partly cloudy days. Once generating

has finished, the collector can be covered from the sun.

The generator will cool enough to induce the night cycle

and start the ice making process during the day.

 

Future Design

Arefrigerator, which is able to absorb heat at any time

from its contents, is more convenient than our current

intermittent icemaker. To enable constant operation, a

future design will include several generator pipes in

staggered operation as well as a reservoir for distilled

ammonia. Staggered operation will allow the

refrigerator to always have one or more of the

generators “thirsty” and ready to absorb ammonia, even

during the day when generation is simultaneously

happening. Generation will constantly replenish the

supply of ammonia in the storage reservoir. We are

currently in the first stages of making these

modifications to the icemaker.

Caution:Safety First!

Working with pure ammonia can be dangerous if safety

precautions are not taken. Pure ammonia is poisonous

if inhaled in high enough concentrations, causing

burning eyes, nose, and throat, blindness, and worse.

Since water combines readily with ammonia, a supply

of water (garden hose or other) should always be on

hand in the event of a large leak. Our current unit is a

prototype. We will not place it inside a dwelling until

certain of its safety. Unlike some poisonous gases,

ammonia has the advantage that the tiniest amount is

readily detectable by its strong odor. It doesn’t sneak up

on you!

For the longevity of the system, materials in contact

with ammonia in the icemaker must resist corrosion.

Our unit is built with non-galvanized steel plumbing and

stainless steel valves, since these two metals are not

corroded by ammonia. In addition, during operation the

pressure in the system can go over 200 psi. All the

plumbing must be able to withstand these pressures

without leaks or ruptures.

Would-be solar icemaker builders are cautioned to seek

technical assistance when experimenting with ammonia

absorption systems.

Conclusion

The S.T.E.V.E.N. icemaker has both advantages and

disadvantages. On the down side, it’s somewhat bulky

and non-portable, and requires some special plumbing

parts. It requires a poisonous gas, albeit one which is

eco- and ozone- friendly in low concentrations, so

precautions must be taken. In its favor, it has few

moving parts to wear out and is simple to operate. It

takes advantage of the natural day/night cycle of solar

energy, and eliminates the need for batteries, storing

“solar cold” in the form of ice.

 

 

Access

Authors: c/o S.T.E.V.E.N. Foundation, 414 Triphammer

Rd. Ithaca, NY14850

SIFAT, Route 1, Box D-14 Lineville, AL36266

 

 

Solar Ice Maker: Materials and Costs

 

4 Sheets galvanized metal, 26 ga. $100

1 3" Black Iron Pipe, 21' length $75

120 Sq. Ft. Mirror Plastic @$0.50/sq. ft. $60

2 1/4" Stainless Steel Valves $50

Evaporator/Tank (4" pipe) $40

Freezer Box (free if scavenged) $40

1 Sheet 3/4" plywood $20

6 2x4s, 10 ft long $20

Miscellaneous 1/4" plumbing $20

2 3" caps $15

1 1/4" Black Iron Pipe, 21' length $15

4 78" long 1.5" angle iron supports $15

Other hardware $15

15 Lbs. Ammonia @ $1/lb $15

10 Lbs. Calcium Chloride @ $1/lb $10

Total $510

 

 

[Abigail]

Great find!!!

[halfpint]

Originally Posted By: PureCajunSunshine

Great find, Abi!!!!



I looked everywhere on the site for pricing info...not listed. I have not called/emailed them, but I suspect it might be expensive, or else they would advertise it?

HMMMM...Now, don't that sound a lot like the gel-crystal stuff that is sewed into rolled up bandanas, and sold at many fairs and festivals, to keep cool?? It works by soaking up cold water and retaining the cold temp for a time...

The prices are on the site, you need to download the pdf catalog to see them. The small is $20, and the extra large is $33. I think it would be a good investment for a diabetic as it's sometimes hard to travel with insulin and keep it cool for long periods - and this is a very small container you could probably keep in a purse or small backpack. When I was pregnant on insulin and traveled I always had to carry a small ice chest with me - that little bag would have been much easier to tote around.

I suspect that using cold water is to give it the initial 'cold', so that you don't have to wait a while until the wallet cools off to be effective. With warm water, it would probably take up to a few hours to reach the same cooling effect from evaporation.

Dawn

[Lois]

When I clicked on one of the products on the product page this is what I got in addition to a discription and picture.

 

Available in a choice of six different colors:

BLUE, GREEN, BLACK, BURGUNDY, RED and YELLOW/BLUE

Frío® SmallWallet Qty: Price: $24.50

Color: RedBlueBlackBurgundyGreenYellow/Blue

[PureCajunSunshine]

Originally Posted By: halfpint

I suspect that using cold water is to give it the initial 'cold', so that you don't have to wait a while until the wallet cools off to be effective. With warm water, it would probably take up to a few hours to reach the same cooling effect from evaporation.

Dawn

I suspect that if you don't have the means to dunk the stuff in the required cold water bath, and if summertime ambient air temps are in the high nineties, the gel crystals won't ever get cool enough to keep insulin safely cooled, even with evaporation.

Dang. All that in one sentence.

Anyway, if any of you diabetics out there want to give this product a try, please experiment with the above scenario, and share your findings here.

Inquiring, inquisitive, curious, speculative, questioning, searching, meddling, analytical, and scrutinizing minds wanna know!

[PureCajunSunshine]

Eureka!! Here's a way to have the required cool water to "activate" the insulin cooler, even under the most austere conditions. Use this to cool the water that the Frio Wallet will be "reactivated" in:

 

From Emergency Essentials http://beprepared.com

 

Item # IN MF I100 Jack Frost™ Instant Cold Pack $0.59 each

 

No freezing required! This is a first-aid essential for sprains, broken bones, and other injuries. The temperature-controlled packs provide a safe and consistent temperature of 33°F, with an approximate duration of 30 minutes. Easy to activate - just squeeze and shake. These packs have recieved the ISO 9001 certification. (The international standard for quality)

 

 

Emergency Essentials, Inc.

653 North 1500 West

Orem, Utah 84057

1-801-222-9596-Corporate offices

1-801-222-9598 Fax

1-800-999-1863 Customer order line

 

 

[PureCajunSunshine]

Well, I just had to ask...What kind of liquid is in instant cold packs? http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_kind_of_liq...tant_cold_packs

 

Because it's a Wiki kind of place, there were several answers. Here's the best three. Notice the second one. Hmmm. Maybe even reusable? But CAREFULLY so...this stuff is explosive and was made safe by the properties of the other ingredients. The third answer kind of expounds on that.

 

 

Answer #1

 

It is ammonium nitrate. They come with dry ammonium nitrate crystals and a bag of water. When they combine it becomes cold ammonium nitrate (it is harmful).

 

Answer #2

 

It is amonium nitrate cyrstals and water. When you pop the water pack the two undergo an endothermic reaction. Pretty much you are making new compounds, these compounds are ions(NH4+ & NO3-). Water breaks the two parts of NH4NO3 into the positive and negative parts, and it takes heat energy from the surrounding area to make the seperation. When it dries it recombines and releases that heat (not observed because water gets colder when it evaporates). So if you CAREFULLY cut that bag open and dry it, it will do the same thing again.

 

--->>> Does anyone Out There know how dangerous this is? Will I blow up to smithereens if I tried this?

 

In a SHTF situation, WHERE THERE WERE NO MORE ICE PACKS, AND INSULIN NEEDED TO BE KEPT COOL, would this be a doable alternative to nothing? How many times can it be "reactivated"?

 

 

Answer #3

 

It is actually not a liquid. A waterbag activates a chemical inside an outter pack, usually Ammonium Nitrate. However, because of its potential danger, a Urea Based pack with non-toxic addatives has become the norm to create a icy sensation. I believe only one company manufactures this specific composition, called the InstaKool by Nortech.

 

Nortech Laboratories, Inc. www.instakool.com

www.nortechlabs.com 631-501-1451 1-888-COLD-PAK http://nortechlaboratories.com/news.htm

 

 

 

[Abigail]

Originally Posted By: PureCajunSunshine

Well, I just had to ask...What kind of liquid is in instant cold packs? http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_kind_of_liq...tant_cold_packs

Because it's a Wiki kind of place, there were several answers. Here's the best three. Notice the second one. Hmmm. Maybe even reusable? But CAREFULLY so...this stuff is explosive and was made safe by the properties of the other ingredients. The third answer kind of expounds on that.


Answer #1

It is ammonium nitrate. They come with dry ammonium nitrate crystals and a bag of water. When they combine it becomes cold ammonium nitrate (it is harmful).

Answer #2

It is amonium nitrate cyrstals and water. When you pop the water pack the two undergo an endothermic reaction. Pretty much you are making new compounds, these compounds are ions(NH4+ & NO3-). Water breaks the two parts of NH4NO3 into the positive and negative parts, and it takes heat energy from the surrounding area to make the seperation. When it dries it recombines and releases that heat (not observed because water gets colder when it evaporates). So if you CAREFULLY cut that bag open and dry it, it will do the same thing again.

--->>> Does anyone Out There know how dangerous this is? Will I blow up to smithereens if I tried this?

In a SHTF situation, WHERE THERE WERE NO MORE ICE PACKS, AND INSULIN NEEDED TO BE KEPT COOL, would this be a doable alternative to nothing? How many times can it be "reactivated"?


Answer #3

It is actually not a liquid. A waterbag activates a chemical inside an outter pack, usually Ammonium Nitrate. However, because of its potential danger, a Urea Based pack with non-toxic addatives has become the norm to create a icy sensation. I believe only one company manufactures this specific composition, called the InstaKool by Nortech.

Nortech Laboratories, Inc. www.instakool.com
www.nortechlabs.com 631-501-1451 1-888-COLD-PAK http://nortechlaboratories.com/news.htm

Brilliant idea!! This could be a solution for at least until the cold paks run out...any info out there as to the storage life of these paks and if they need to be stored at relatively cool temps as well?

So far as the danger in actually REUSING the paks...I'd ask someone who knows something about chemistry (that's NOT me!!) about the reaction of these chemicals when they are exposed to the air...and if the temperature of the air affects any potential reactions at all...

My is that I'd truly have to be desparate to fool around with a potentially explosive substance, particularly in a situation where advanced medical care was difficult to impossible to find; and if I were having that many problems keeping insulin cool, I'd be in such a situation...

Still, for someone who knows what they are doing, it would be good to know if the risks in doing so could be minimized in case of a truly desparate situation...

I got to thinking about just how cold insulin REALLY needs to be kept and came up with this:

http://www.diabetes.org/for-parents-and-ki...are/storage.jsp

They say 86 degrees maximum...but that's just for a month; for stocks of insulin it needs to be colder to keep to the expiration dates. The higher temp is encouraging for short term storage issues, such as during evacuations.

Another link I found about switching brands during emergencies, that discusses temperatures as well; there are some variations among brands, apparently:

http://www.fda.gov/Cder/emergency/insulin.htm

And this one about REUSING SYRINGES which probably will become an issue as well...

http://www.diabetes.org/type-1-diabetes/safety.jsp

There's LOTS more info; I just googled "insulin storage temperatures" and those were some of the top hits...

PS Found this after I posted...

http://www.kfshrc.edu.sa/annals/196/98-243.html

Appears that a Zeer pot may be helpful...

[Abigail]

Medicines requiring storage at Low Temps in the Pharmacy:

 

http://www.kfshrc.edu.sa/annals/196/98-243.html

 

 

Good reference; probably the definition of what actual temp required for storage varies...as does the length of time a particular medicine can be held without being kept cool; google your particular med for specifics...

[Mt_Rider]

Hey, whoa ladies. I just saw this thread now. I just wrote a bunch of stuff I know about these polymer water-absorbing crystals -- ASSUMING this expensive FRIO wallet uses the same thing. YES, it certainly sounds like it from my experience with the crystals.

 

Does not need COLD water to activate. Does not insulate the 'coldness'. It works simply on evaporation!!! So you can activate it with lukewarm water and swing it around in the air for 3 minutes (moving air increases evaporation) and it will be nice and chilly. I do this if I've been wearing my stuff for a while and its not so chilly.

 

Go read my whole response down in Holiday & Gift Central forum. http://www.mrssurvival.com/forums/ubbthrea...2525#Post161779 Having extreme MS heat intolerance (the #1 likely thing to kill me if I go by MS-related causes), I've had 20 yrs of seeking out cooling methods. I've used this method with homemade products for 15 years. It's good but it has limitations.

 

AND that FRIO product is overpriced if you are AT ALL handy with a fine-weave cotton fabric and a sewing machine. (my mom sews my stuff...thanks mom!!) But note the limits in my other response. If you can't get good evaporation, you won't get cooling. Watch your temperatures to make sure your meds are safe. And those crystals don't last forever.

 

Make your own pads with these crystals (gardening stores) and just keep enough fabric/dry crystals to make more as the first ones give out. Store unused crystals in moisture-tight containers or it will be absorbing moisture from the air during storage. Keep the hydrated pads in a mesh bag so that evaporation occurs more readily. Or keep inside the zeer pot???

 

 

I ALWAYS (even on planes...so far....) carry one of those first aid instant ice packs. Available everywhere First Aid supplies are sold. [don't pay shipping] I am in so much danger from heat that I'm never without one. But I've never heard of trying to open it and dry for reuse. [edited to add: I DO know of a reusable heating pad, if anyone is interested...]

 

I've been eyeing this zeer pot idea...sound simple and just one more 'cool' idea!

 

MtRider [keeping cool at all costs]

 

[Abigail]

MtRider, is this what you use?

 

http://www.soilmoist.com/

 

Because it seems to be different from the Ammonium Nitrate based ideas...I guess if it doesn't work well in humid environments I'm really out of luck...I don't think there's a place on the planet more humid than the Gulf Coast...

 

Thanks for the info; I wouldn't have thought that humidity would have been a factor; I was focusing on the heat...good to know.

[Mt_Rider]

Yep, that's the same stuff. [NOTE: the use for plants is not actually 'evaporation' cuz it's in the soil. That would be....hmmm, is that osmosis? It's for slow moisture seepage from an area of high moisture - the crystals, to areas near plant roots of low moisture. It's not for cooling properties, but for the water retention & slow release properties.]

 

My gardening store has it (no label) in a barrel and sells by the pound as much as you want. From everything I read about the FRIO product - it's this stuff too. Evaporation, pure and simple. These rock-hard crystals soak up many times their weight in water quickly. Then they slowly dry up thru evaporation --> which produces the cooling effect. Quicker in our high desert climate.

 

A low tech version of the evaporation principle in Colorado: I soak a white heavy sweatshirt in water and wear it on the hottest days when I must ride my horse. Any breeze at all will keep me cool. But I can't be gone more than 40 min. or the sweatshirt is completely dry before I return. THAT'S how well our evaporation works here.

 

If you are in an area that a "swamp cooler" aka "evaporative cooler" will not work, these chrystals won't do so well except maybe in windy conditions.

Swamp cooler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler These are what we can use instead of more expensive air-conditioning units.

 

Basically you are talking about the difference in both cases (the FRIO vs Instant Ice Pack OR Swamp cooler vs air conditioner). The first is based on evaporation and the second is based on a sort of refridgeration. The first uses simply water and moving air. The second needs to run a process. The first is cool; the second can be cold to freezing.

 

But naturally, the second is harder to maintain when :shtf:

 

 

You know the saying around Colorado in summer....we get hot, yes "but it's a DRY heat". More easily tolerated cuz body evaporation (the function of our perspiration) is working better for cooling than you folks in that steamy jungle type of heat. Obviously, I would die quickly where you live.... Which is the answer to that age old question: Why would anyone want to live where they have three foot blizzards? For the wonderful summers!!!

 

 

Keep those ideas flowing tho. Some areas of the country can use this rather low tech solution. I'm always looking for just one more barrier between me and my heat emergencies!

 

MtRider

 

 

 

[PureCajunSunshine]

I know from personal experience, the cooling bandana stuff works in humid conditions. It just does not work AS efficiently. One site giving instructions on making cooling bandanas (I don't remember which one) advises the wearing of two of these things if the environment is too humid for rapid evaporation.

 

My own experience with using them in the ultra hot and humid Deep South has been good. Not fantastically great, but good enough. The first time I ever met one of these bandana coolers was at a festival--in JULY. A vendor was selling them out of an ice chest that was filled with cool water (all the ice had melted). I bought a couple of them, put one of them on, and stuck the other one in my own ice chest...The crystals HELD the supercool temps for a lot longer than just a plain cold wet cloth would have! Of course, the hot sun and my hot skin heated the bandana after a while... A brief soaking in cool water got the real cold thing going again, for a time. Lukewarm water provided ho-hum results. When there was no more ice or cool water, I hung the bandanas in the shade. When the air got unbearably hot, even in the shade, I laid them on cooler surfaces to abosorb the "cool"...It worked good enough to prevent some serious heat exhaustion! And, I was able to party longer! LOL

 

If these gel-crystals are "charged" with cool water initially, then put into an insulated something-or-another...I feel that this principle might work exactly the same as the expen$ive wallet thingie (hence, the reason for their instructions to immerse it in cool water).

 

I had inquired about a quantity of the gel-crystals because I have an experiment in mind...a modified zeer pot set up involving the gel-crystals, and maybe one or two that includes sand or vermiculite...or anything else that might hold the cold a little longer... I wanna see how long the cold lasts, using the instant cold pack thingies now and then to cool the "coolant water"......and to what degree the increased air circulation will lower temps.

 

Sheesh. I am not diabetic, nor do I personally know of anyone taking insulin...but I hate the thought of so many going into unnecessary hardship for lack of what might be a simple solution...

[PureCajunSunshine]

MtRider, do those instant cold things have an expiration date or any indication of shelf life? Where do you get yours?

[PureCajunSunshine]

Abi, sister-mine, we are so seriously on the same page! Just BEFORE you posted all those wonderful links about temps and the Zeer pot thing, I was enjoying a cup of Community coffee (imported from back-home), and musing about those very same things...zeer pot ideas (hatched from another thread), temperature requirements and such...

 

Lo and behold, I turned on the 'puter to do a bit of research, and found you had already found what I wanted to know!! Heck, this is not the first time something like that has happened with us. In fact, it has happened often enough to make me go a little

 

Do you drink that Community coffee, too? LOL

 

 

 

 

[Abigail]

WOAH!! Isn't that something! Well, it's said the Lord brings ppl together for a reason...never expected to find that true on the internet, LOL!!!

 

I LOVE the idea about using these crystals in the Zeer pot idea! That had never occurred to me. Makes perfect sense; I'm sure it will work...it will be interesting to see if it will keep things colder longer, or if it will reduce the temperature even more...or both!!

 

This sounds like sacrilege, particularly coming from the New Orleans area...but I've developed an addiction for Starbucks...caramel macchiato!!!

[Mt_Rider]

PCS --- great idea with zeer pot and crystals! I'm predicting go-o-o-od results. Please let us know how it goes. I might go find some clay flower pots and do some experiementing myself. Vermiculite? Hmmm, it does hold moisture too. I use it heavily when starting veggie plants. Sand has a fast perculation rate ...nothing to absorb the moisture. The top would dry first tho the capilary action in the unglazed pot would spread the moisture.... Hmmm??? BTW, for your calculations, I read somewhere a claim that the crystals absorb 200% of their weight (or was it size?) in water. Gives you a rough idea.

 

Glad you humid climate folks can get some good use. My friend from MN actually sent me back the one I sent her cuz she didn't like the results. But maybe she was trying in the still inside air?? It would stay cold longer due to the holding capacity of the water in these odd crystals. A nice ice-cold wet towel works for a time, but will loose the moisture (like my wet sweatshirt technique) much faster. Have you tried swinging one of the neckties around in the air after it's warmed a bit? Or holding it in front of a fan? It should give you about the same "wind chill" results as ice water. Then put it on.

 

I like the zeer pot idea much better for meds. One would need consistency. Unless those wallets have a secret, they won't give consistent cooling for any longer than the neck ties will. If insulin was a SIP issue -- I'd go with the zeer pot cuz you have a double technique going on. Then, you could add that "fridge hanging in tree" technique..... PCS, was that your post on the draped wet cloth hanging in the breeze with cool stuff inside? All these are 'evaporation' technique. But the crystal's odd property of holding the water so long gives a great advantage. I really do love these things. My mom and I have created a number of different uses for cooling me. I'd try a whole vest but it would be so HEAVY!! LOL And, as I mentioned in the other forum, I've used them to keep my lunch cooled. But you have to watch them. How cold do you shoot for with meds?

 

 

Abigail, since PCS has noted some success with the ties even in the humid climate, seems like it would definitely experiment with one. They are cheap. See how consistently this technique works there before investing in this expensive wallet thing. One question to answer: How often do you have to remember to mess with it? I just didn't want you to think that there was some magic "activation" with ice-cold water. As I said, unless they have a secret, they are using that term "activation" rather loosely. Truth in advertising, and all. The Instant Ice Packs really DO have a chemical "activation" when the two substances combine.

 

As for those instant ice packs, if you are going to break one to chill water (tho I really think the spin technique has promise) , you would also get to use the remaining time in conjunction with the crystal packs. I've been using a regular ice pack with my cool pads. (& when I get too hot, I put on the cool pad and my lunch keeps what's left of the ice pack.) One for the refridgeration technique and the other to hold water for the evaporation technique. If you put the crystal packs next to the meds, it would keep them from freezing next to the ice pack. But the Instant Ice packs only stay cold for....hmmm, can't remember accurately. But I think a half hour. However...that's where the crystal packs would hold that advantage longer. (how much longer????) Then keep checking to see when the temp is getting high and break another ice pack. It certainly lasts for a day's excursion with my sandwich. That's all the longer I've used it so we'd have to test it for longer in the case of crisis.

 

OK, I have some freezer-type first aid packs and I'll soak my crystal cool bib. I'll volunteer to test this part. Gotta find a thermometer.....Ahhh.... I could use my high/low registering thermometer....it records. I need a new cool bib. It now takes 2-3 hrs to soak this one full. It's a couple yrs old. (don't try 2-3 hrs with a new one!!)

 

As for the First Aid Instant Ice Packs... PCS, I've gotten them from Walmart or any where there are first aid supplies. Some are larger than others. This is purely a chemical reaction and when that chemical reaction runs out, the cold does too. Like I said, this kind doesn't stay cold as long as the type of First Aid ice pack that must stay in your fridge. The kind made out of something other than just water inside. The kind they ship things in the mail with. I save all of those. The thrid kind is the flexible cold packs - used to wrap around a sprained ankle. They remain cold for the shortest time. But they are very nice for such injuries. Just keep a few and rotate them back into the freezer or even cold water. But they won't offer much cool time for this medication cooling dilemma.

 

Oh, I dug out my Nexcare brand Instant ice pack that I carry in my Goin' Into Town Backpack. No expiration date listed but I called the info line. This product has tested good for up to 5 yrs. They don't guarentee the product will still activate the chemical reaction after 5 yrs. But there isn't any reason to throw them out either. Just might or might not work. The stamped code "33303" she said is Julian (sp) calendar and means I bought it in the 303rd day of the year 2003. So I've got another year on that. That's assuming that the inner bubble thingie is not broken!!! I've got the plastic ice pack still in the (rather mushed) cardboard box and that is kept within another bag to protect it. Don't let any wear 'n tear happen to the plastic bag of the ice pack. They have stamped all over the instructions: DO NOT REUSE and DO NOT USE AS HOT PACK. (Those flexible ones I mentioned earlier can be used hot or cold but not these.) She confirmed that their product is made to retain cold for 20 minutes. That is because of basic First Aid use instructions. You aren't supposed to chill a wound area for more than that without taking a 20 minute break. Then use a second Instant Ice pack for the next 20 minute interval.

 

OK, I'm soaking my cool bib now. I'll time how long I can keep a cool environment in a heated house (it's still 28 degrees here right now) with this Crystal + Ice technique. I'll report on it. I'm very interested in this Zeer Pot + Crystal experiment, PCS!!!! Let us know.

 

 

 

MtRider [not needing cooling outside on this day ]