what is it that the commercial canners and do that we cannot?

[Robert Z]

There are certain things that we know that we cannot can. Fat, Dairy, thick foods, bread, etc...

 

What is it that the commercial canners can do that makes these foods ok that we cannot?

[Violet]

Robert,

There is a lot to it, not just that they don't want us to know.....

I know Darlene only allows us to post USDA, safe, tested methods. All of these things have been tested in labs as to what we can and cannot safely do at home.

They have very expensive, multimillion dollar equipment. We have about a $100 little canner. Have you ever seen on tv the big sterilizers, etc. that they have ?

They have special chemicals we don't use at home. Well, to me, that is part of the joy of having homecanned foods. No added preservatives and chemicals. Read their cans and see what they have in them. Some we can't even pronounce, let alone personally want to eat.

 

 

 

[JCK88]

violet and

I've been reading about this issue because I'm ticked off at the USDA for saying you can only use Sure Jell to thicken things that are canned. Well, I'm allergic to it because it's made of corn--and I'm sick of the Amercian corn lobby getting its way all the time....grrrrrr....I digress into a rant...

 

Well, anyway, I have corresponded with the USDA and the extension services about various recipes that they say can only be done with Sure Jell and it turns out that you can develop your own canning recipe for something and then pay to have it tested to see if it is safe.

 

Apparently, the USDA got a bee in its bonnet some years back and began testing the canning recipes that were out there and learned that some of them were not safe. Also, pathogens are different now than 30, 50 or 100 years ago. Remember how everyone used to thaw their meat all day on the counter? Now, we don't do that because the salmonella and E Coli and other pathogens are more present and stronger strains.

 

Also, I cynically think the USDA figured it better test their recommendations in case anyone decided to sue them.

 

I'm with Violet. I like home canning because I'm not using chemicals and preservatives.

 

Susie, I have in the past canned cakes and things like that, and cheese, and milk, and stuff that had flour in it. I just don't post those recipes here anymore because I don't want Darlene getting sued. Also, since guidelines changed, I have changed my canning practices to reflect the new information. (I just don't and won't use Sure Jell!!)

 

 

 

[susie]

I hang around French people who have food businesses and who can thir stuff for resale. It's done in exactly the same way as I do it at home.

[Canned Nerd]

Originally Posted By: JCK88

I've been reading about this issue because I'm ticked off at the USDA for saying you can only use Sure Jell to thicken things that are canned.

I always thought the USDA approved "ClearJel®" as a thickener for canning and "Sure-Jell®" was a fruit pectin.

[JCK88]

Oh..whatever it is.. ClearJel, not Sure Jell....I don't use it so I don't know. You're right about the ClearJel...sorry about the confusion. (I have Sjogren's Syndrome and one of the fatigue symptoms is that I exchange words at bad times...so here I go again.) Thanks for the correction on that.

[Violet]

Judy,

They did some testing after there were reports of food borne illness due to old practices and methods. Things like the pickled eggs, which are no longer considered safe to can.

I personally know of someone who had to go to court after some folks died due to using the boiling water bath on green beans. So, it is after those kinds of situations they have retested old methods and updated them. Thankfully, it is for our protection.

Yes, the Clear jell is the recommended product because it doesn't lower the acid level like some other thickeners can, plus, it doesn't break down like other things do, too. It is part of the safety. Flour and other starches can lower the acid level. I understand your problem with corn, but then in cases like yours, we just suggest you can the pie fillings without thickener, and then thicken when you open it up.

I know in some places you can pay to have recipes tested. Here we don't do that.

Can you imagine all the folks wanting their recipes tested ??? It would be a nightmare.

Basically, they test recipes that will fill the need for the basic, general public.

The USDA does try to insure public safety. Being on this side of it all gives me perhaps a different view on things.

 

Susie, I know things are done differently there, but here we do have scientists who test and retest these kinds of foods.

I agree with the other poster, too. It can prevent lawsuits, too.

Trust me, I do know of someone close to me who had to deal with the liability part of it. Also, I have to document each call I take, as to how I answered them, where I got the information Just in case their is a lawsuit. We also have to do the same when testing canner gauges, the people have to sign a waiver, releasing us from legal prosecution if they misuse their canners.

Things are not so cut and dried here as to put something in a jar and can it. There are good, valid reasons as to why those things are not safe to can. Not only are we protecting those we give information to, but to protect ourselves from being sued, too.

 

[susie]

We have food scientists here, too....we even have a testng lab in this town that is just for cheese and dairy products from the regio. The controls are very, very strict.

 

For instance, you must use a pressure canner when selling to the public (everyone else water baths). You must keep a sample of everything you serve in a public eatery, to be kept for a certain length of time in case the need arises to test for illness. The list goes on and on, and gets longer with every European directive.

 

In fact, the rules and standards list is so long and so strict that many people have chosen to go out of the business of food altogether. One exampe that's recently FINALLY been changed is that mis-shapen and non-uniformily shaped fruits and vegetables could not be sold in the EEC, leaving mountains of wasted food for no good reason.

 

One of my neighbors has gotten so fed up with the rules for incubating eggs that she abandoned her thirty year old business and sold the industrial incubators to China.

 

We not only have scientists, we have rules for them to follow.

[susie]

Being afrais of being sued is not so usual over here. People are not as litigation-happy as in the US, so it doesn't weigh in heavily But they certainly are rule and standards happy.

[susie]

I forgot to add....

 

You all might know that I dumpster-dive for store jars and then I buy new kids for them and that's what I use for canning...way, way cheaper that way...well, the man from the lid wholesaler refused to sell me any lids until I had explained to him that I use a pressure canner (called an autoclave, here) and made sure of the times and pressures I use.

[Violet]

Yes, Susie, we know...... we have been over this before.

 

[westbrook]

Susie,

 

France does not have the same standards we have here in the US, and even in America, each state has its own laws. then we get into city/county laws.. things may not be so cut and dry here as there.

 

I find the laws in France interesting, but we can't follow them! perhaps you don't have the same problems with Salmonella and E-Coli, but the USDA really does have our best interest at heart.

 

I am not implying that France doesn't have their citizens best interest at heart, but we are so different in policies and laws.

 

There is more then just going home and canning and selling it.. the home has to be inspected and brought up to health codes to sell out of the house, even children in school... parents in most large cities aren't allowed to bring in homemade cupcakes, cookies and cakes.. it has to be purchased!

 

How do I know that the person I am buying from doesn't have dirty floors, sink, cooking among dirty dishes, doesn't have a hair net.. I buy from them and die! I prefer the person have an inspection and frequent inspections to assure my safety.

 

If France does this to everyone that sells home canned food from their kitchen.. that is great! then we aren't so different.. but if not... it needs to be clarified that France had different policies.

 

I would hate for new people wanting to can, following non approved USDA canning practices and getting sick because they found the information here.

[westbrook]

doesn't commercial canners use a stem method for canning? which is why they are able to can items like milk or mashed pumpkin?

 

 

[ScrubbieLady]

Maybe ya'll have heard more than I have but I know a lot of people who eat home canned products and I haven't heard of any of them getting sick but I have heard quite a bit about people getting sick from commercial canned and/or prepared foods(fast food anyone?)

 

I was told flatly that I could not sell anything that I produced in my home unless I had a separate kitchen constructed that could be hosed down up to 3' from the floor. But, an interesting fact is that if I found a certified kitchen to use(licensed, inspected, etc., etc.), I still had to pay to have it inspected when I used it. That is more a money source. It didn't matter when it was inspected for the other people, it had to be inspected for me. If I used a restaurant kitchen that was closed on Sunday, then they had to inspect it EVERY Sunday before I used it.

[JCK88]

Check out this link for an archive full of news stories about people who died from home-canned goods. You may not hear about it in the mass media, but deaths from home canning still do happen and are reported in the news. The list does include commercially-canned incidents, as well. Interesting lists.

 

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?ned=u...ome+canned+food

[ScrubbieLady]

I have no doubt that deaths from home-canned foods happen. I am talking about the circle of people that I know. It would be interesting if they separated the lists into people who died or were ill from commercially canned foods, those that died or were ill from home-canned foods in general and those that died or were ill from using USDA guidelines. Sometimes, maybe problems are not the instructions but the execution.

 

[JCK88]

Oh.. I see what you mean now. In my circle of canning people, I don't know anyone who has been sick, either. I think a lot of problems in canning arise from people not sanitizing jars or from not cooking things at correct times or temperatures. (Like from people trying to water bath green beans or eggplant or something)