Canning Spaghetti Question

[HippyChick]

This has probably been asked a million times but I've used the search function and can't find the answer to my question. I also got out my Ball Blue Book and they only have a recipe for freezing spaghetti sauce in it (pg 98).

 

I want to can my spaghetti sauce. I know I can't process my sauce with the Olive oil in there.

 

The rest of the ingredients are: hamburger, onions, garlic, green peppers, mushrooms, crushed tomatoes and sauce, Italian seasoning, and bay leaves.

 

Do I process for the time it takes for the meat? And is everything else ok, minus the bay leaves since I thought I'd take them out prior to processing?

[Stephanie]

SPAGHETTI SAUCE WITH MEAT

30 lbs tomatoes

2-1/2 lbs ground beef or sausage

5 cloves garlic, minced

1 cup chopped onions

1 cup chopped celery or green peppers

1 lb fresh mushrooms, sliced (optional)

4-1/2 tsp salt

2 tbsp oregano

4 tbsp minced parsley

2 tsp black pepper

1/4 cup brown sugar

Yield: About 9 pints

Procedure: To prepare tomatoes, follow directions for Spaghetti Sauce Without Meat, page

3-13. Saute beef or sausage until brown. Add garlic, onion, celery or green pepper, and mushrooms,

if desired. Cook until vegetables are tender. Combine with tomato pulp in large sauce-

 

 

This is the recipe from the USDA site here http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publications/publications_usda.html

 

 

To find more info click on Guide 3 (tomato products) and scroll down to the Recipe I posted above.

 

It looks very similar to your recipe.

 

Personally, I've decided not to can Spag Sauce, because I like my own recipe.

 

So, I'm canning the meat (seasoned ground beef/sirloin) and keeping my other ingredients on hand. I haven't canned tomatoes yet, but buy #10 cans of Crushed tomatoes from Sam's. That works really good for me, but of course I have an XL family.

[TurtleMama]

THIRTY pounds of tomatoes!?!? Holy cow, now I know what to do with my crazy tomato-exploding garden!!! LOLOL

 

Thanks for posting this, Stephanie...it looks a little intimidating, but I just may decide to try it if I ever get off my bootie and get a pressure canner!

[Violet]

You should never can your own recipes. Find one, like Stephanie posted from a safety tested site and use it. Change by using different DRIED herbs and spices, not fresh.

The density and ph level of your sauce will be different and may make the food unsafe to eat.

 

[Darlene]

Well, I disagree about the canning of home recipes. I can many of my own recipes, within boundries.

 

Depending on your recipe HC, I would consider homecanning it.

[Canned Nerd]

It's still not safe and not recommended if you have any desire to not potentially poison yourself and your family. You are playing with an untested combination of low-acid foods that is the favorite breeding ground for the Botulism toxin, one of the most dangerous poisons in the world.

 

[Darlene]

Thank you for sharing CN.

 

I disagree with the above, when done correctly.

[HippyChick]

You should never can your own recipes. Find one, like Stephanie posted from a safety tested site and use it. Change by using different DRIED herbs and spices, not fresh.

The density and ph level of your sauce will be different and may make the food unsafe to eat.

 

 

Thanks Violet, that's what I was wanting to know. I put 16 quarts in the freezer last night.

 

Hubby and I are on our way to buy me a canner for my birthday today. Whoopee!

[Violet]

 

Your own recipe will have a different ph level, to start with than the published recipes. The tested recipes are tested with those ingredients, only, not adding additional or different things. So, the procesing time for your own food could very well be different. The time may or may not be long enough to destroy all botulism spores.

That old rule about using the time for the ingredient with the longest processing time is no longer adhered to.

Plus, again same with the density. The density of your recipe can and probably will be different. So, same thing, the processing time could easily not be long enough if your recipe is not the same density as the one that was safety tested.

Do as you want, but these are the newest safety guidelines.

Elizabeth Andress at Univ. of Georgia, who wrote the USDA guidelines is the one who taught me this, especially about the density issue. She even says to not use previously canned tomatoes in a recipe that calls for fresh tomatoes, due to the density issue, in things like spaghetti sauce.

This is posted for the new folks who are just learning to can, so they will understand the reasons behind the guidelines.

[Darlene]

 

That old rule about using the time for the ingredient with the longest processing time is no longer adhered to.

 

Out of curiosity, what did they scientifically find that caused them to change that rule that stood for many years.

 

Plus, again same with the density. The density of your recipe can and probably will be different. So, same thing, the processing time could easily not be long enough if your recipe is not the same density as the one that was safety tested.

 

I agree density is a critical component.

 

I do however disagree (once again) with your particular stance on not canning home recipes. As you say, people need to do what they feel best suits their lives and take responsibility for that.

 

 

[westbrook]

That old rule about using the time for the ingredient with the longest processing time is no longer adhered to.

 

well, I am old, so I will continue to adhere to the old rules... I ate canned tomato sauce that was recanned from a #10 can I got from Costco! Now I can't tell you about Sam's Club tomato sauce but I do Costco and I didn't die!

 

seriously... I an canning to the old rules! the new rules? is getting a bit ridiculous! like washing hands with hand sanitizer! over kill and now we have super germs!

 

we are going to obsolete home canning! then they can close down the department and save tax payer dollars because there won't be a need for these people. Adding to this the new laws about gardening..we all might as well just not can anymore!

[Darlene]

lol westie...do you feel the need to share? lol

 

All I'm saying is that I'm not gonna argue with people around here. I've argued enough with people over the years over home canning here at MrsS, supporting safety, that it's getting ridiculous that every time you turn around, they've decided you can't do this anymore either.

 

I learned how to can on my own with no help. I have no fancy degrees on my walls, no well known leading authorities personal numbers on my cell phone, although I'm sure I could talk myself into anyone's office if I put my mind to it. I've canned many things I shouldn't have and they were complete disasters. I've canned butter, pasta (lol) and all kinds of things that don't need to be discussed, and threw it out cause it sux'd. I've researched home canning from it's inception back in Napoleon's days and all the ridiculous errors that were made for many years until science matured to the point where they learned how to make things safe. I was canning fish LONG before it became widely accepted because I researched and researched and researched until I found the Alaskan extension's guidelines.

 

The point is, I don't advocate unsafe home canning practices. I do however feel that I have enough experience and knowledge, and I'm strict enough (that's a proven fact) on canning, that just because the governmental agencies or higher learning institutions says I hafta used dried basil instead of fresh basil in my marinara, or that I can only use 1/3cup of chopped onion instead of 1/2 cup of chopped onion, doesn't mean that I can't safely and properly can my own recipes.

 

Yes, density is critical, and alot of other things are important. I've posted step by step pictures of my own personal recipes over the years, and as far as I'm concerned, they've served my family well.

 

Just because a couple people might not agree with me, doesn't mean that I'm wrong and you're right, or vice versa. I think I respect the boundries sufficiently, and desire that my difference of opinion be respected too. This is starting to get really ridiculous and I sure hope the newer members don't get the wrong idea about this forum or what we stand for at this site.

[Stephanie]

Any time you start off on a new venture, it's good to know the rules. I'm still fairly new at canning myself and so I am always interested to hear what the rules are. I'm also interested in hearing the 'old' ways and the experiences of individuals.

 

After I've gathered all the info and read, I can make my own decision, but it's good to have all the info available so I can learn and make that determination. I don't see that as a conflict of interest. I like knowing the rules, new and old, and then weighing the risks as I learn and hone this new skill I'm developing.

 

I keep thinking of when we had to start wearing seat belts. Heck, I didn't know what a seat belt was when I was a kid, now I do and now I wear them, and make sure my kids do too. We learn, we adjust, we grow. That's a good thing.

 

 

[westbrook]

hangs head, Stephanie.. the old ways, well that was last month! now we have new ways... this month!

 

your old ball blue book is obsolete...you now need the new one to can by! so if you are canning by the old book you are at risk!

 

<rolls eyes>

[brendajo]

When I am teaching someone new to can I always recommend the BBB and to follow those rules.BUT if they have tried one of my recipes for let's say salsa that they really loved I will give them that recipe. Some people who are new to canning want to rush right in and can milk gravy or their recipe for asparagus on toast with the toast. Guide lines are great for those just starting out but forums especially this one is where we really learn to take it to the next level. Thanks everyone.

[Darlene]

Any time you start off on a new venture, it's good to know the rules. I'm still fairly new at canning myself and so I am always interested to hear what the rules are. I'm also interested in hearing the 'old' ways and the experiences of individuals.

 

You missed my point and/or I didn't explain myself well.

[Crazy4Canning]

Goodness. Has this thread turned a bit catty (no offense to our beloved Cat) or is it just me? A question was posted, it was answered and this thread took a left hand turn with sarcasm. Wow. So not-typical of Mrs S.

 

Violet never implied that you couldn't do your own recipe, she just cited the current safety rules. Never did she flaunt a certificate or degree, or a know-it-all attitude, just what the latest research is, something that she knows far better than anyone I know of. (And I'm NOT saying this because I know her - she is a wealth of information, the head of our extension service even asks for the 'latest and greatest' news.) I consider this valuable information with regard to food safety and canning practice. Whether or not you, as an INDIVIDUAL, choose to practice that, is of course, YOUR choice. (P.S. I happen to be a geek and find the new rules interesting...

 

Along this line, I must say one of the many things I appreciate on Mrs S is the ability to discuss things openly without fear of reprisal or the blatant in-your-face attitude of 'screw you I'm doing it my way'. If I wanted that view, I would be more active on other boards and leave Mrs S alone.

 

I know I'm not a mod or founding supporter, and as such don't hold as much weight as some other participants, but I think the point of this thread was discussing the canning of spaghetti sauce in a safe manner, not a soapbox for "I did it my way and lived - to heck with the rules."

 

So, here are my comments to the original question.

 

I did just get a copy of the new BBB. It is a wonderful edition and has a LOT of new safety information that was missing in the last couple of editions. I like to sit and compare the different editions and find out what's different. Sometimes, it's simple the length of processing time. It's always good to know. Because germs, bacteria, safety rules, and canning practices are always evolving (for the better, I like to think), I thought it was our job here on Mrs S to encourage the SAFETY of all members. We do this by sharing the 'latest and greatest' new technique, discuss how it compares to the old, and what the new methods are for safety. Now, each person does have free will to observe the rules, I think I've 'heard' Darlene say a number of times that it is good to be 'safe' and know the rules.

 

If you like a recipe with a bit more garlic or fresh herbs, fine. Just know that it might not be recommended for that particular recipe for xxx reason. Unless noted, each recipe does have a BIT of wiggle room on certain things. An example, one of our recent canning class members added a LOT of pepper to Dilly Beans. The instructor thought he was pushing the limit, but from a chemistry standpoint, he was safe in his love of cayenne pepper flakes. Another lady didn't put any in due to an allergy.

 

See my point? Please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

Know that just because you toss in an extra bit of dill or spice or garlic doesn't mean the Crazy Canning Ladies of the Food Safety Patrol are going to show up on your doorstep and take away your pressure canner and whack you with their bubble freer wand. They just want you to make the best, most informed choice possible for the safety of you and your family.

 

Enough Said. Back to your regularly scheduled Q & A with a smile and hug.

 

[Darlene]

Goodness. Has this thread turned a bit catty (no offense to our beloved Cat) or is it just me? A question was posted, it was answered and this thread took a left hand turn with sarcasm. Wow. So not-typical of Mrs S.

 

It does seem that way, doesn't it? I offered a differing opinion and was met in a manner that I didn't care for. I also wrote a response that didn't properly express what I was trying to say. I in fact, even called another member because I was struggling with how to communicate it, and yet it still didn't come out right.

 

Violet never implied that you couldn't do your own recipe, she just cited the current safety rules. Never did she flaunt a certificate or degree, or a know-it-all attitude, just what the latest research is, something that she knows far better than anyone I know of. (And I'm NOT saying this because I know her - she is a wealth of information, the head of our extension service even asks for the 'latest and greatest' news.) I consider this valuable information with regard to food safety and canning practice. Whether or not you, as an INDIVIDUAL, choose to practice that, is of course, YOUR choice. (P.S. I happen to be a geek and find the new rules interesting...

 

This has nothing to do with Violet. I adore her and 99% of the time agree with her...there's very little I disagree with, in fact.

 

People's expressions are open to interpretation so I'm not going to nit pick with this anymore. I even think it's cute and endearing that you feel the need to champion Violet. She's a sweetie, and that's that.

 

But, like I said before, even though I don't hold the degrees (and I am not the one who cites qualifications and/or connections), I addressed that, and that's that too.

 

Along this line, I must say one of the many things I appreciate on Mrs S is the ability to discuss things openly without fear of reprisal or the blatant in-your-face attitude of 'screw you I'm doing it my way'. If I wanted that view, I would be more active on other boards and leave Mrs S alone.

 

I think 'agreeing to disagree' is one of the most healthy ways of communicating. Consequently, when I discuss that some home cooking is suitable for canning, I sure don't care to be told that my thoughts are not valid "if you have any desire to not potentially poison yourself and your family".

 

Fair is fair, and when championing a cause, it's only right to be balanced.

 

I know I'm not a mod or founding supporter, and as such don't hold as much weight as some other participants

 

Having been at MrsS for a while, I would hope that you would understand that generally everyone's voice is equal. It's only when it gets into situations where a line has to be drawn that I, or other Moderators or Admin, are placed into a position where 'the final word' must be imposed.

 

This particular situation does not, in any way, shape or form, fall into that type of category.

 

I did just get a copy of the new BBB. It is a wonderful edition and has a LOT of new safety information that was missing in the last couple of editions. I like to sit and compare the different editions and find out what's different. Sometimes, it's simple the length of processing time. It's always good to know. Because germs, bacteria, safety rules, and canning practices are always evolving (for the better, I like to think), I thought it was our job here on Mrs S to encourage the SAFETY of all members. We do this by sharing the 'latest and greatest' new technique, discuss how it compares to the old, and what the new methods are for safety. Now, each person does have free will to observe the rules, I think I've 'heard' Darlene say a number of times that it is good to be 'safe' and know the rules.

 

Not only germs, baceteria, etc, play a part, but I personally feel that the foods that we preserve today, are unfortunately very different from foods years ago. Most times, fruits and veggies have been so genetically modified that I personally feel has opened up all kinds of opportunities for problems and concerns. Tomatoes aren't as acidic as they used to be, etc.

 

You heard correctly...I advocate safe home canning practices, and have backed Violet up to the chagrin of many. It's when I disagree about canning some home recipes, that I seem to have found myself in this conundrum I'm now in.

 

If you like a recipe with a bit more garlic or fresh herbs, fine. Just know that it might not be recommended for that particular recipe for xxx reason. Unless noted, each recipe does have a BIT of wiggle room on certain things. An example, one of our recent canning class members added a LOT of pepper to Dilly Beans. The instructor thought he was pushing the limit, but from a chemistry standpoint, he was safe in his love of cayenne pepper flakes. Another lady didn't put any in due to an allergy.

 

Very nicely said.

 

Know that just because you toss in an extra bit of dill or spice or garlic doesn't mean the Crazy Canning Ladies of the Food Safety Patrol are going to show up on your doorstep and take away your pressure canner and whack you with their bubble freer wand.

They just want you to make the best, most informed choice possible for the safety of you and your family.

 

Perhaps others will remember that in the future.

 

Enough Said. Back to your regularly scheduled Q & A with a smile and hug.

 

Backatcha.