Mother

OHHHHHH I AM envious AH. That's a really nice wagon. Can you give us the dementions on it? It looks as if the gentleman was standing inside he'd touch or almost touch the top. It really is a falacy that most settlers used a conestoga wagon to travel across the west. Most were lucky they could afford a farm wagon with a make shift cover over the top. Surprisingly enough, especially later in the migration, some people traveled in buggies with wagons coming behind but it wasn't the best way to travel and most of them ended up in the wagon or walking eventually. Buggies were just not meant to stand up to that abuse. Anarchy, that's a great start to the list. Water is truly a heavy item and as Mt_R says we're to have a water wagon following us we can hedge a little on that but.........what if something happens to the water wagon??? She DOES promise us some adventures. I believe I'll at least add a barrel to the outside of my wagon and keep it full as well. We're bound to find some water along the way....I hope.

AH Michael, I hope you get it soon. Now you have me curious.

Trying to list things Mt_Rider suggested. I'll add more about what we are bringing along soon. Skills: As skills go, I have a few, but am more jack of many trades than master of one. (I suspect that Michael is that way as well) (by the way, I just caught the connotation of the assumed names AH, LOL) I have a lot of years in teaching open fire cooking. I have also taught pioneer daily life skills, including making "do" with what we have, Herb lore and usage, food preservation in the past, old ways of producing light, staying warm, doing laundry, cheese making, and more. DH and I and our kids did wildlife rescue (27 years of doing it) and the knowledge of wildlife habitats, how they react in given situations (not always possible as they can be unpredictable), and etc might be valuable. I have some Fiber crafts knowledge (knitting, crochet, weaving, knitting board, spool weaving, and more). I have knowledge and skills in small livestock handling and rearing, especially the old ways, and have some knowledge in herbal remedies for them. I have lots of gardening experience, and some wild crafting knowledge. I also have organizational and people handling skills, as it’s what I did for years for a living. I have also, as part of a life long love of pioneer living and a desire to learn first hand what it took to do so, lived for months at a time as our pioneer ancestors did. That is, without electricity, with no running water except what ingenuity rigged up, with only wood heat and cooking, and etc. They did NOT have it easy! What I DON'T have is the physical ability to carry out some of these skills as I did in the past. What is it they say about those who can do; and those who can't teach! I'm probably closer to the teaching end than the doing end. DH will be a great asset but in ways not specific most likely. He is a jack of many trades and can repair almost anything. He is a good make do carpenter. Even at our age (retired) he can outwork many younger than he. His middle name is Ingenuity, LOL. He is also a very good hunter. Hopefully we'll have family coming with us. DD can do almost everything I can plus she is excellent with numbers. GKs are all versatile and willing to help. One GSIL knows hunting inside and out. SIL can handle any farm livestock there is and can not only drive teams but also can farm using them. He can repair almost anything, including farm equipment of the old fashioned kind. DS #2 (#1 is in Thailand and won't be coming along) can do almost anything with metal, mechanics, and he is named after his father's middle name. LOL Youngest son is an excellent and avid hunter and sportsman, welder, mechanic etc. His children, while young, are all willing workers. DDIL has an active mind and can shoot as well as any in the family. I hope there are some things in this list of abilities that will make us good trail mates and useful members of our new community.

I was thinking the same thing Michael so have decided to post a part of my list instead of trying to get it all together. I sure wouldn't want anyone to leave me behind. Those of you who know me probably will be amazed to have me say this but,,,,I'm glad we can bring along modern inventions. I have always opined that combining the best of both worlds (past and present) would be the only way to survive in today's world. To get an idea of what modern items we might want to take I consulted with our 7 YO GS. Some of you will know that we help to home school him, teaching history and science two days a week. Last year we did a whole curriculum on covered wagon travel and living complete with outfitting a 1/12-scale wagon. We often had to make our own ‘to scale’ supplies so he’s pretty knowledgeable about what needs to go in them. He recommends that we bring along our small solar panels, gel cell batteries, and a few solar lights. Now I can think of all kinds of things we might use that set up for but he says that we need it because “it gets mighty dark in the wilderness and we might want that ‘comfort’”. (yes, he does talk that way and he’s more than just a little afraid of the dark). Now, admittedly, that solar set up might not last a long time, and it would have to be packed extremely well to make the trip but he’s right. So many people, especially those coming from an urban setting, have any clue how dark it can be at night in the wilderness. Have you ever looked out your window and NOT seen a light in the distance? Most of us have flashlights and even, if you are like me, wind up ones that will last a long time into the future. We have lanterns and lamps but they are dependent on fuel. We can make all sort of lights as well, like the grease lamps or the vegetable oil lights but they also are dependent on fuel. Candles are also a possibility but they need substances as well and the truth be known, most of them are going to give a meager light at best in a vast wilderness of darkness. A good experiment is to go into a large totally dark room, devoid of ALL light sources. If the room is small like a bathroom or closet you will be perfectly comfortable with the light from a flashlight or even an oil lamp. If that room has a mirror in it, so much the better. BUT if you use a large room and you depend on say just a candle you are going to find that it’s pretty difficult to see farther than right in front of you. Now compare it to the only light in MILES!!! Like AH, I have a ton of historic items to bring along but the first “modern” convenience I’m putting in our wagon will be that small solar system. Not just for comfort either. That light might prove invaluable if a medical emergency comes up in the future. I have a half dozen or better 12 volt items that could be used with the system but I’ll be very selective of those before adding them. I will be adding the 12-volt battery charger (we have a solar one for charging small batteries as well) and a couple of portable battery packs. That would allow us to make the light or whatever, portable. As our battery packs also have inverters we would be able to run some electrical (110) items as well. Even if the system didn’t last forever, at least we’d have it until we got more inured to the lifestyle. More coming.

At one time I had done a series of articles for the Historic Village Museum that I worked for. I used them at various times as a basis for workshops and seminars as well. There is a perspective in them that gives some insight into getting ready to leave your home and family to travel in a covered wagon to the great unknown. I posted them in the Fireside in case anyone would like to read them. Here are a few more thoughts to get you thinking..... One question I received often from women was a personal one. "How did women go to the bathroom when on the prairie or on the trail without outhouses?" My reply was...Long dresses and open crotched pantaloons were a wonderful invention..... So were chamber pots.....Porta Potties were not pulled along behind the wagons and emptied at each town. Now maybe that's more info than you needed but if we are going to try to make this realistic enough to understand the possibilities we need to be thinking all things through. Long skirts are really not practical on the trail or around a fire but they did have their uses...... Just how much toilet paper can you get in a wagon? Do you know what leaves are safe to use as alternatives? How many diapers can you wash and hang inside a wagon? Will they dry and if they do, will they be covered with trail dust? Is there an alternative? What if someone gets ill on the trail? Will you have the ability to care for them? Medicines? What about their comfort? Have you ever been sick in a moving vehicle? You should try a wagon if you think that's bad. Can you cook food over an open fire? What about doing so in the rain? In a storm? Do all your pots and pans have covers? Can you keep your salt and sugar and etc dry? Can you think ahead far enough to have 'something' for the kids who are crying with hunger and can't wait until the rain stops? Or perhaps it's a hungry DH that's in need of feeding despite the rain. Did you think to bring along a hat? A wide brimmed hat? A rubber poncho? Rubber boots? Okay, I'll quit for a while. Now I have to get my OWN wagon packed if I'm going along. I've experienced covered wagon living before. Not months but enough to make me realize that you can get by with a whole lot less than you think. Packing to MOVE to another area is a whole other experience I believe. Like Mt_R I'm tempted by so many things that I THINK I need but I know exactly how small a space a wagon contains. By the way....Last year I taught Covered Wagon Living to our home schooled 7 year old GS. We 'furnished' a 1/12 scale replica covered wagon with miniatures we either found or made (am still finding things actually as this year we are doing a chuck wagon study). It was an experience for both of us and a whole lot of fun but it taught me that even using miniatures I couldn't get it all in.....

Darlene, would it work for us to quote reply to our own posts and edit it at that point? That would bring the new info forward as well as edit it....wouldn't it???? or not??? I'm as computer savy as an infant and some of them are more savy....

This is a Mormon list for travel's west to Utah. It takes into consideration that there were many going together just as we would be doing for this exercise. Requirements for Mormons on their journey to Utah 1 strong wagon, well covered 2 or 3 good yoke of oxen, ages 4-10 2 or 3 good milk cows 1 or 2 good beef 3 sheep, if can be obtained 1000 pounds of flour or bread stuff in good sacks (corn meal ?) 1 bushel of beans (dried legumes) 100 pounds of sugar 1 good musket or rifle to each male over 12,1#powder,4#lead 1 pounds tea, 5 pounds coffee A few pounds of dried beef or bacon 25 pound sack of whole grain 25-100 pounds farming and mechanical tools Clothing and bedding per family, not to exceed 500 pounds Cooking utensils, bake kettle, fry pan, coffee pot, tea kettle, Tin cups, plates, folks, knives, spoons, pans, etc. A few goods to trade with Indians 15 pounds iron and steel (for repairs?) A few pounds of wrought nails 1 gallon alcohol 10 pounds apples, 5 pounds dried peaches, 25 pounds salt, 2 pounds pepper, 5 pounds soda, cayenne pepper, 1 pound cinnamon, 1/2 pound cloves 20 pounds soap A good tent and furniture for each two families 1 or more sets of saw and gristmill irons to each 100 families 1 fish seine for each company, 4 or 5 hooks and lines 2 sets of pull(e)y blocks for crossing rivers to each company 2 ferry boats to each company Each wagon to carry one ton without people or 2800 pounds with them. 10 extra teams per company of 100 N.B. (?)-- In addition to the above list, horse and mule teams can be used as well as oxen. Many items of comfort and convenience will suggest themselves to a wise and provident people and can be laid in season, but none should start without filling the original bill first.

Bravo Mt_Rider. A wonderful tool to make us THINK!!! You come up with the neatest ideas. Thanks for this one. Okay, first, I just got back from five days of travel in a motor home and am a bit tired yet so will have to add to this as I get my brain in order. Please my forgiving as I ramble here with thoughts in no particular order at this point. Trying to take along even enough food for the time it would take us to reach our destination would take up a lot more weight and space than you might imagine. If you add to that enough food to last us until we were established you could have the wagon over half full right there. Add to that all the supplies and materials that you would need to set up housekeeping and provide sustenance and a living after that would be very challenging. The Belknap diary, referred to in one of the links on Mt_Rider's first post, is one of the most famous records of how a family prepared for the trip. There were other diaries as well, all good sources of information, but many were written before the trip started when an idealistic belief was still very strong. The actual trip was not nearly as wonderful as most people were led to believe. If I read Mt_R's scenario right, she is suggesting that we are going to be starting a new community that does not include electronics and perhaps very few modern inventions. Those you do bring along will have to be durable or expendable for life will not be all that easy despite the beauty and wonders of the "wilderness" to which she is leading us. While you are preparing for this exercise, I suggest that you not just read what is written as much as think through what would be the realities of travel in this way (thanks Gulfcoastruth for your taste of reality) and base what you are taking along on the fact that you will not be living as you do now if you take this journey and in fact, it might be years before you would have any of the niceties you have now. She is also telling us that we can take along only what we "already have". That could be even more challenging than what the pioneer had as they often sold everything they owned that could not be taken along and bought what they needed. Food alone will be a challenge for many as a lot of us store food in the form of frozen or home canned. Food in jars is not appropriate for wagon travel as they are shaken way too much to be either safe from breakage or from spoilage. Canning equipment, likewise, might seem a necessity and indeed, it could be, especially the big water bath canners or heavy pressure canners but more for heating water for use in bathing and etc or hauling water from a stream. It might be possible to bring along enough jars to use in canning once we get there, but how much space and weight would they take up? Do you have the old-fashioned reusable zinc lids and rubber rings? Again, remember the weight and space limits. How many have cast iron cookware? You can take you lightweight cooking gear but let me assure you it will hold up little better than the tin of day's past when used repeatedly over a fire but then again, how many cast iron pans can you take and still remember the weight and space limits. Cast was usually carried in containers made for them and attached to the outside of the wagons but the weight was great and had to be figured in. People soon learn on the trail that it would be much better to throw out Grandma's beautiful dresser rather than the cast iron pot they need daily for cooking. Okay, just a few things to think about. I'll be posting the list of supplies recommended by the Mormons for those people journeying to Salt Lake City.

Please be aware that there is some controversy about using Elderberry for the more potent types of flu, like the Avian flu and even the Swine Flu was included in that. I believe because the Swine Flu is much lighter than was thought to have been that there aren't the cytokine storms that are seen with more severe forms of flu. Still, It never hurts to do research on what you are taking. There's lots of info here on Mrs. S about Elderberry and the flu including some recipes. Just do a search for it and then make your own decisions.

*GROAN* You just HAD to post this didn't you, PCS???? Now I'll NEVER get anything done..... Great site though and I've actually been there before. Wonderful info but way more than is easily assemilated in anything less than a lifetime. But it sure is FUN to try. Thanks for the link. AND the caution. ((((PCS))))

Most members will not know what some (or any) of these products are or what to do with them. Would it be possible for some of you to explain not only what these products are but also some of their health benefits as well and how to make them if it's not already been posted some where. Perhaps if there are links to info you would be willing to take the time to post them to our resource list as well as here. Another help would be to talk about the different yogurt cultures (and other cultures if there are more than one for a product) and tell us your preferences and why. Thanks everyone!!!!

and a whole bunch of applaud (I couldn't find a clapping smiley). My own research has shown the same thing that G&V and HM found. We have been duped and our health eroded by the powers that control our country,,,,greed and money. Try this for informational reading. http://www.coconutoil.com/ Please remember though, the research studies might be only as good as the funding they recieve. If possible, try to follow the funding resources back as far as possible. Often it will be found that the studies were surreptitiously funded by those who want to use the studies to sell you something. Sometimes this information is well hidden behind non profit organizations or universities. We must all make up our own minds about what a healthy diet is for our particular situation as often what is healthy for one is not for another. One good way of finding out if a change in your diet might help is to try it for several months and see how your body reacts. In the case of coconut oil and healthy fats you might be pleasantly surprised. Thanks G&V for this reminder that we aren't always told the truth.

You might want to remember that thieves have time to read the how-to's and watch the videos as easily or even better than you. I was told by a detective that most anywhere you could think of to hide something, a professional thief already knows where to look. I do like the tampon idea though. I just hope no thief is reading this thread. LOL In thinking of fire here we've been contemplating places to hide money outside of the house. We've thought of such places as inside wooden fence posts or in a hollow tree (waterproof and rodent proof containers of course). Buried like a treasure is of course another possibility as is putting it in an outbuilding, perhaps in the garage in a special oil can on a shelf of others. I keep envisioning something happening to us and one hundred years later someone finding our old useless dollars when they are bulldozing, digging or ?? Our own brand of a time capsule. Think if I do something like that I'm going to include some kind of note just in case and just for fun. Speaking of that, I always wanted to get a lot of those fake hiding places and only leaving sympathy notes in them for would be thieves. Big sigh, I do have a bit of the devil in me, don't tell anyone.

Thank you for that post, Mommadogs.

Super Post Westie, Some of us are going to need these. I've cooked for crowds of fifty to one hundred people many times but only have few recipes. Lots of good ideas and recipes here. Putting these and other recipes in our own book is a great idea. I just started. Thanks.

I am here as well Cat. I haven't got the book but will be looking for it. Thank you for doing this.

Karelle, It is so nice to have you here. I've often wanted to thank you for the wonderful job you and her dad did raising Darlene. She is special to us all. You must be excellent parents to have raised someone with such a loving, giving heart. Her faith in the Lord sustains us all when we feel we can't go any further and her faith in us is just as strong. To those of us who have gotten to know her, she is a blessing. You must be very proud of her, I know we are. (((((((Karelle)))))) Welcome to Mrs. S. We are honored to have you here with us.

to Mrs. S Zoombies. I make a similar banana butter and can it. I've kept it for years with no adverse problems. I have preserved it with both water bath method and with pressure and both seem to be fine. My recipe is similar but I sometimes add other fruits or nuts making it into a type of conserve. I especially like golden raisins cooked into the batch. This is a tasty way to preserve bananas that are on sale or those which are over ripe.

There is a lot of information on getting prepared for a pandemic in the Flu forum. I've bumped some of it up recently. Unfortunately it might involve a lot more than just stocking up on meds. It's possible that we would have to isolate ourselves for months at a time, not leaving our homes, not recieving mail or other items into the homes unless they could first be assured they weren't carrying the disease, being cautious even of wild life surrounding us depending on the source. We might have to choose who or whether we allow anyone to come to our door or onto our property. Those that leave probably wouldn't be able to come back if we wanted to stay safe. Are you prepared to live that way? Masks, disposable gloves, and months worth of everything we need could be indespensible. A daunting thought but might save lives.

Great resources Leah,

I agree with Skagit. I always feel better if I feel in control. Now it's true, we can't always control everything that life sends us but having food in the pantry and knowedge for survival in my head goes a long way to soothing. I do get worried and tense though so I believe I'm going to take Krissy's idea and go verbally abuse my chickens and see if they like it too. Oh yeah, that's another way I relax.....I see humor in the most unusual places. LOL Thanks Krissy!