Annarchy Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Diabetes runs in my family on both sides. After seeing the interest in this subject I thought we could have a general thread for information about it.Most of my family have had to use insulin to maintain their diabetes, however, a few actually control theirs with diet. I'm borderline, whatever. Sometimes my lows are in the 70-80's, sometimes highs are in the 200-300's. I know knowledge is the key to maintaining this horrible disease, I'd be interested to hear about alternatives to standard medicines that might work, like diets and natural remedies. What's the difference in testing materials? I use the 'OneTouch Mini', I test before and after meals when I suspect my sugar is what is making me feel ill. Quote Link to comment
Twilight Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Mother Earth has an excellent article called Eating for diabetes. It stresses exercise and diet. Increased weight gain increases the chance for diabetes. But it also says following diet and exercise regimens, insulin can be stopped. So many illnesses can be controlled or cured by these simple measures. Quote Link to comment
Mt_Rider Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I'd like to hear about anyone who had .....and I'm not sure this is the right word..."cured" diabetes by having the stomach 'staple' surgery. It's, I believe, just that the surgery mostly results in drastic weight loss. But some of the claims seem overly optimistic. One of our kin tried it and didn't get the results she was hoping for. [personally, the whole idea of that particular surgery scares the hooey outta me....and no, this is only a casual interest for me. Far as I know, I don't have diabetes....tho I do crave my sugars too much.] MtRider Quote Link to comment
TheCG Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) I'd like to hear about anyone who had .....and I'm not sure this is the right word..."cured" diabetes by having the stomach 'staple' surgery. It's, I believe, just that the surgery mostly results in drastic weight loss. But some of the claims seem overly optimistic. One of our kin tried it and didn't get the results she was hoping for. [personally, the whole idea of that particular surgery scares the hooey outta me....and no, this is only a casual interest for me. Far as I know, I don't have diabetes....tho I do crave my sugars too much.] MtRider I know of someone on another forum who is vastly improving his diabetes by changing to a ketogenic (very low carb, moderate protein, high fat) diet before they did the surgery, but he ended up never needing the surgery after the massive dietary change. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/DittoDan/view/blog-8-rx-drug-report-since-i-started-keto-698385 If you read down to his update, he's down to one medication. Edited September 2, 2015 by TheCG Quote Link to comment
Sarah Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) What's the difference in testing materials? I use the 'OneTouch Mini', I test before and after meals when I suspect my sugar is what is making me feel ill. I can help here! The 'new' electric meters such as the OneTouch, work based on the different electro isotopes of iron oxide. They react differently with magnesium, potassium, and (argh! Can not remember the third!). ferro/ferric/ferrus oxide. If the patient has retention issues of these three minerals, the meters can be greatly skewed. The older 'color change dot' units, where you blotted a strip, and then slid the strip into a color scanner also suffered from the above, but also contamination issues. The chemicals in the dot would become contaminated from open air. The oldest test, the 'tritration' test, where they take a 'large-b' vial of blood is a true lab test, but the most accurate, if you have access to such. The 'new' A1c meters are also electrolytic/electric, so they also suffer from the same issues. <start edit due to my bad english> NOTE: If you have had a 'crash', below forty on the standardized range, or 'high', above 400, then any 'new' a1c meter usually WILL will give a false reading for that period, aka 90 days. A dKa too. The daily meters also skew due to this. This shows the fallacy of a medical clinic using a standard test to monitor a gentle let down from dKa. Most EMTs do not know this. I have sat through several a dKa let down, visiting, and bit my toungue when the patient was told 'when you get down to 150...' <end edit> The even older urine dip strips are still available but the average human eye can not really use the color grid to tell. Certainly not accurate enough to be able to determine needed amount of aspart. Sarah Edited September 2, 2015 by Sarah Quote Link to comment
Sarah Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) I'd like to hear about anyone who had .....and I'm not sure this is the right word..."cured" diabetes by having the stomach 'staple' surgery. It's, I believe, just that the surgery mostly results in drastic weight loss. But some of the claims seem overly optimistic. One of our kin tried it and didn't get the results she was hoping for. No. But I do know of one who underwent the islet transplant surgery. My late mentor again. While he is dead now, he did NOT die from diabetes. He had a careful diet thereafter, ratios wise, but no restrictions on quantity or type. Normally this would not have been done or allowed. In case you are wondering, he lost his goodwife, (hitting the idiom book again) 'broken heart'. Sarah Edited September 2, 2015 by Sarah Quote Link to comment
Sarah Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Folks, I see some 'cross up' between type I and type 2. Please lets be more careful here. The treatments, in my experience, are often contra-indicated. And sometimes cross me up too. The stomach staple thing is for type 2. The rule used to be, and I think still is: if the patient required ASPART insulin injection to live, type I. Otherwise type 2. Aspart 'run's up to an hour. Some asparts are Humalog, Novolog, 'R; (pig) and Apidra. Detmir is a generic synonym (another spelling?) of the long types. Brand-names of the long are Levemir, Lantus, and 'N' (pig). Inhalent insulins are for type 2. Another way to say it. A type 1 is insulin dependent, and has no production of natural insulin. A type 2 is 'impared' production and utilization. Sarah. Edited September 2, 2015 by Sarah Quote Link to comment
Jeepers Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Honestly, I do not know a lot about diabetes. The only people in my family who have it are overweight. I do know a woman who is trying to gain weight (Dr. advised) so she can have the stomach surgery to control her diabetes. That seems crazy to me. Why not lose the weight instead. I don't know her medical history though. I guess it will work for her. Also she is an RN. I'm pre diabetic meaning my blood tests are in the high range of normal and sometimes crossing to the unacceptable range and then back down again without using medications. I just use the RelyOn tester from Wal-Mart. It did test close to my blood work so I stick with it. A drop of blood on the test strip an the meter reads the numbers automatically. One thing I learned from my blood pressure machine is consistency. If you KNOW it reads high or low ALL of the time then you will know if you are dropping or rising so you can do what ever you need to do to correct your problem. I'm pre diabetic because I'm about 25 pounds overweight, don't exercise enough, have medium-high cholesterol (genetic) and high blood pressure (genetic). So it's up to me to control the first two on my own. Easier said... I would love to get off of the cholesterol and BP meds and not start insulin. It's a long range goal. Sigh. Also Type 1 diabetes is much different than Type 2. Type 1 can not be cured or prevented...only controlled with insulin. Type 2 can be prevented and controlled through lifestyle changes. Quote Link to comment
Sarah Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Also Type 1 diabetes is much different than Type 2. Type 1 can not be cured or prevented...only controlled with insulin. Type 2 can be prevented and controlled through lifestyle changes. Thank you. Much better said than I did. Sarah Quote Link to comment
Sarah Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Jeepers, there are drugs that block the nutritional value of the food eaten. These 'diet pills' are often used for type 2 as an early test if diet can be controlled. 'Glucophase' comes to mind. The 'staple' may just be a continuation of that thought process. Sarah Quote Link to comment
Jeepers Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Thanks Sarah. The Dr. did say IF I ever have to go on meds it would be pill form first, although she didn't mention any drug names. Good to know but hope I don't get to that stage. Quote Link to comment
Mt_Rider Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Wow, I had no idea Type 1 & Type 2 were really different critters. I assumed that one progresses from Type 1 to Type 2. So...you all are saying that's incorrect? RE: The CG......the above data about Type 1&2 would really influence any surgery/natural weight loss attempts then. [Of course maintaining a healthy weight is always a good thing even if it didn't help diabetes.] My kin had some weight loss but her [ ....I'm going to use the word "ignorance" cuz she basically made up her own facts so she could continue eating a mountain of sugar every day ...and there is unfortunately a low intelligence issue with her too] ignorance is killing her. When I worked on Maui decades ago, I ran into a diet that was making waves. It consisted of the foods the original Polynesians brought/found. Yams, WILD pig, food from the ocean, taro/poi, fruits, coconut, etc. One astonished doc I talked to said his very large patients were coming down or off their diabetes meds after sticking with this diet. [Of course I've no idea about Type 1 or 2.] But this was a culturally attractive diet in Hawaii.....tho probably more expensive than the new diet that hit their cultural during the ravages of WWII years. [spam, white rice, etc] Expense is always one of the factors of disease. There are diseases that the wealthy have gotten thru history cuz they could afford [to overindulge in] certain foods. There are diseases that the economically-challenged have gotten thru history cuz they could only afford cheaper foods. Especially in urban [no garden] areas. MtRider Edited September 2, 2015 by Mt_Rider gah! I keep leaving words outta the sentence! Quote Link to comment
Twilight Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 This area here is mostly 'welfare'and among them are some extremely obese people. But they also eat lots of junk food. On another forum was a discussion with lots of proof that buying all your food not raising any was very fattening and general poor health. When you raise your own you know what you have, if you can your own produce you know exactly. The Amish for instance used to raise all their own food but here they are in the business of selling discontinued,overstock, outdated, can goods,low end produce, outdated dairy products..and it is a vicious cycle. They can buy cheaper then raise and they think it is affecting their health. Suddenly so many have gluten intolerance, or is it? mental problems, nervous breakdowns, just generally health problems never known to that extent in their group. The smart ones think it has to do with the food quality. As I mentioned the other group discussion, I think they are so right. Sugar/sweetener is hidden in nearly every food as is corn . Another thing buying not growing you do not have the choice of non gmo foods. Then it is also how we are made,with different blood types, some are more prone to diabetes than others.read on dadamo.com. he has done lots of research as have others. Some of us have a harder row to hoe. Although I had an aunt with diabetes that weighed right at 400..she and her little husband had a Jersey dairy farm and she made full use of the cream keeping half a dozen cakes pies cookies on hand always, and providing ham,bacon, sausage and pork chops, potatoes, gravy etc for breakfast. Anyway I am not thinking it is hereditary. Quote Link to comment
sassenach Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Type 1 pancreas does not produce enough or any insulin, Type 2 the body is insulin resistant and the pancreas may decrease production over time . Some folks can control Type 2 by diet, but not everyone can. There is as of yet, no cure, although they have started doing more pancreas transplants but from the FB group I belong to, it seems the transplants only last about 10 years. There is work being done on a 'cure' for Type 1. Type 2 can also use insulin , other than the oral medications available. This gets individualized and there are other types , actually more than a dozen,but they generally lump it together into Type 1, Type 2 or Type 1.5 which is when the pancreas is losing its ability to produce insulin and resistance may be there anyway, and I still have not gotten a post on my wall from that group talking about the particular blood test , anyone who may be a diabetic or prediabetic should simply have done. Unfortunately so many doctors don't bother and assume ....... It involves identifying a particular gene . Ok..... protein based snacks help stabilize blood sugar and 3 meals a day plus two snacks ...... There is also something called the Dawn Phenomenon and takes waking up at 3am to test Blood Sugar to be sure its not dropping ,,,,,,,,, cause then it shoots up by Dawn or when you wake up and its HIGH. When the night before , before bedtime Blood sugar was doing good. This also may have to do with the Type 1.5 sort of diabetes often lumped in with Type 2 and treated as such until you end up having extremes and getting very sick ( and they realize you actually need insulin ) . Quote Link to comment
sassenach Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 To get a good handle on Blood sugar levels, fasting when you wake up , just after going to bathroom first thing, before you have anything to drink or eat. Pre breakfast. 2 hours after breakfast ( generally suggestions are Blood sugar should be under 200 2hrs after a meal) . Pre lunch. Then 2 hrs afterwards Pre dinner. Then 2hrs afterwards. Pre sleep time. ( You may actually find you need a snack by then. ) Because blood sugars fluctuate and it helps determine exactly which foods do what to your blood sugar, or if you go low or high feeling, in addition to these times, take your blood sugar. More information on your particular blood sugar levels will help you figure out what is working, and what is not. Quote Link to comment
sassenach Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 You may need to do this for about a month to be sure of your diet system adjustments. Yea it costs a bit sometimes for extra test strips but its worth it for your benefit as time goes on. Eating some foods helps lower blood sugar at times but nothing , herbal or synthetic is known as an absolute cure. Its an organ not functioning just right. Quote Link to comment
Jeepers Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Yes Mt. Rider that's incorrect. They are two different types. Type 1 is sometimes referred to as Juvenile Diabetes because it often starts when a person is a child. Quote Link to comment
sassenach Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 People can be skinny as a twig and be diabetic. Being obese is not the only factor involved here. I think when I lost weight that began to help the absorption of the insulin I do produce though, and generally feel better for losing it. People have been known to become diabetic from a bout with the flu, no other health factors involved, or exposed to toxins and some meds also seem to cause it ( I have worked with toxins and taken three of the medications that have class action suits against them for causing diabetes) . They are toxic. I do not think GMO foods and pesticide laced seeds helps the stats though. But not every one can homestead either. Many of us are stuck , or there are those not interested in even a small garden in the back yard. There are other disorders where you can have co existence with diabetes as well. I have some of those. They are also more common , some are, with aspergers/autism . Im like a heinz 57 mix . Its all real for me. It's not fun and people are quite cruel these days. Quote Link to comment
Momo Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I was diagnosed about 10 years ago. It runs in my family and I am also overwieght. I took pills for about 6 years and they helped some. I didn't want to go to insulin because in my mind I thought I could work hard and prevent needing insulin. About 3 years ago I went on insulin. It is very expensive! (The only inexpensive types are two older formulations that WalMart sells.) Last November i went on a very low carb diet. I lost about 45 pounds since and have cut the amount of insulin I use by nearly half. A few diabetics I know online say to eat by your meter..don't follow any fads or Dr. advice. The reading is what lets you know what works for you. (Nowadays most Dr.s say healthy carbs are ok.) My best friend had the gastric bypass and the next day she was taken off all her meds for everything including diabetes. Unfortunately she died from a heart attack a few months later due to her electrolytes being mesed up from poor nutrition. Quote Link to comment
Momo Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I also want to add that DH has diabetes too. He could eat whatever garbage white bread, cake etc he wanted and a Metformin Tablet would level him out. About a year ago he had a piece of his intestines removed due to bleeding. Since then he hasn't needed to take a single pill. It makes you wonder about what hormones in your gut could affect your sugar in such a way. He still has to check his sugar to be safe though. No one knows if he will revert back or not. Quote Link to comment
Sarah Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Thanks Sarah. The Dr. did say IF I ever have to go on meds it would be pill form first, although she didn't mention any drug names. Good to know but hope I don't get to that stage. Look for the generic term 'glucophage'. Glucophase is a tm. I should have stuck that in. Sorry. Quote Link to comment
Sarah Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Wow, I had no idea Type 1 & Type 2 were really different critters. I assumed that one progresses from Type 1 to Type 2. So...you all are saying that's incorrect? Umm... Yes and no. The way it was explained to me is using an engine analogy. If you have a rough running engine (type 2), and you let it run that way long enough, damage can occur (type 1). But you could get a bad engine to start with (type 1). Another engine analogy. Do you remember the old 'catalyst' engines, ones that had a second smaller tank of 'catalyst', Think of the old 'corn oil' diesel engines. If the catalyst tank was empty, and you could not refill it (they corroded), that is type 1. If that catalyst tank was not metering correctly, very common, then type 2. Sarah Quote Link to comment
Sarah Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 There is as of yet, no cure, although they have started doing more pancreas transplants but from the FB group I belong to, it seems the transplants only last about 10 years. There is work being done on a 'cure' for Type 1. My mentor, again, was a early transplant, and a 'skinny as a rail'. I was unaware of the ten year thing. He died due to other causes, and did not see ten. That does surprise me that I had not heard of that. But then again, as another posted, economics plays a big factor, and most of the medical HMO (is that correct term?) or insurance plans do not support it. Pure out-of-pocket. Yes, work is and has been done. I remember the 'glucowatch' for type 1s. And then the combination of that technology with an automatic injector. These were discarded, I think, for two reasons. The constant needle in the blood vessel, and complications thereto. And they had, I guess corrosion might be a good word, issues with the 'pig' R insulins. Today, they have the rDNA ones, but I have not seen any revisit to that type of unit. Oh, and yes, type 2 can take insulin, but normally the long types, not asparts. That is why I capitalized ASPART in my previous post. Sarah Quote Link to comment
Sarah Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 This area here is mostly 'welfare'and among them are some extremely obese people. But they also eat lots of junk food. When you raise your own you know what you have, if you can your own produce you know exactly. The Amish for instance used to raise all their own food but here they are in the business of selling discontinued,overstock, outdated, can goods,low end produce, outdated dairy products..and it is a vicious cycle. They can buy cheaper then raise and they think it is affecting their health. No arguement from me on that. But I think it is more 'added ingredients'. I will not go into that MSG thing ('other natural flavors'). FYI: here, in our community store, asulfame potassium, aspertame, alcohol sugars, etc are BANNED. FYI, if OOM produced, you get real COMPLETE ingredients lists, and the OOA follow suit to a large degree. Sarah Quote Link to comment
Sarah Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) To get a good handle on Blood sugar levels, fasting when you wake up , just after going to bathroom first thing, before you have anything to drink or eat. Pre breakfast. 2 hours after breakfast ( generally suggestions are Blood sugar should be under 200 2hrs after a meal) . Pre lunch. Then 2 hrs afterwards Pre dinner. Then 2hrs afterwards. Pre sleep time. ( You may actually find you need a snack by then. ) Because blood sugars fluctuate and it helps determine exactly which foods do what to your blood sugar, or if you go low or high feeling, in addition to these times, take your blood sugar. More information on your particular blood sugar levels will help you figure out what is working, and what is not. I am thinking you have mixed the standard type 1 and 2 treatments here. This is a type 1 'bracket' system. The other type 1 'bracket' is called 'by the threes': 0600: test and shoot aspart to lower to 100 by standard scale, and 'x' number of Lantis. 0900: test and shoot aspart to lower to 100. 1200: ditto the 0900. 1500: ditto the 0900. 1800: ditto the 0900. 2100: ditto the 0600. Normally the 2100 lantis is half the 0600. If awake at 2400, ditto the 0900. If awake at 0300, ditto the 0900. Type 2 do not do anywhere near that much testing. Again, I am type 1 centric, but I understand that type 2 only do one test a day. Sarah Edited September 3, 2015 by Sarah Quote Link to comment
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