ITeenage problems

[ANewMe]

I am new to the board and had no intentions of posting until now. We are at witts end. We have a wonderful 16 yr old son who has been no problem until he hooked up with this girl. They have been together since Aug and despite things I heard about her we had no problem with her. We welcomed her into our home and did for her. They hung out at our house all the time..never at hers. Then the disrespect, deceit and defiance started. We tried to limit their time because they were together ALL the time. Then we found out that they stayed out all night. I called the mother b/c I thought she should know and apologize for the role my son played in it and she had no problem with it. She says her daughter does no wrong. We have since found out that the girl slapped him and there were witnesses. He denies it. His Uncle witnessed it. He also told two people that she did drugs but was slacking off now. He denies that. We take his phone they give him another one. We welcomed this girl into our home and loved her only to find out that she was telling everyone we hated her. We have rules they do not. Her mother says its just a matter of me not liking her. I have told my son if he would accept his punishment and abide by the rules we would ease up but he won't. It got so bad we had to take him out of school the last two weeks and finish at home. We actually took him to the Youth Court counselor and they talked to him and told him he had to abide by our rules and they even called them in and told them to back off. They have not. They have even asked him to move in with them. We have gone as far as sending him to my sister in laws house in NC where he was supposed to work. He has been the model child there. They think we should allow him to talk to her because he is so upset and distraught and he is doing so well there but they don't know the bull that he is giving us when he is calling home. He tells us how stupid all of it is and he's going to leave etc etc. It is never ending. Tonight he called and said he wasn't coming home. Said he didn't know what he was going to do but he wouldn't come home bc we had ruined his life. Other than just let him do what he wants we don't know what else to do. It's almost like he is brainwashed. He is definatley not the child we raised..

 

I know that this doesn't compare to half of the request that are on here but I really feel like we have lost our son. If he had been one that got into trouble..maybe I could see it...but never even mischief. Always very responsible and very respectful. Now he is trying to play family members against us and it has worked with some...any advice...please pray.

 

Melissa

[susie]

Teenagers are SO tacky, especially hormone-fueled ones that want to be grown-up.

 

And it's such a shock to the parents...disheartening to lose all sense of perspective and hope.

 

But there still is hope, I can promise you that. It'll all look different in a few years' time, when all parties concerned (including the parents) have grown and changed and adapted to the situation.

 

Keep your sense of humour, if you can.

[chefddr]

I have a tweener - he will be 13 in December and I can already see some of what is coming....I just pray like crazy now, there is nothing I can do about nature, I guess it will run it's course, and hopefully I will live to tell the tales to his children (naw, don't want to be a grandma!!).

 

He has his friends, he doesn't want to be here at home at all. For the kid that I couldn't get up in the morning just last week to go to school, he is now up early and ready to run out of the house for the day by 8:00am! (go figure). He is happy to tell me I'm ignorant and stupid and I don't know anything and all I want to do is ruin his life. My poor baby, I can already see some of the damage he is doing himself, he doesn't need my help to ruin anything.

 

I asked my mom "why did I end up with kids with these problems (MH issues) WAS I THAT BAD AS A TEENAGER??" Thankfully, she said no, I wasn't near half as bad as this kid and she does worry about us every day, she is a prayin' nana!! She said being a mom flying solo doesn't make it any easier, but then again, my stbx never did anything to help and I think in my case anyway, that despite the fact that there is no "man" in the family now, things are better than they were.

 

I am one of the lucky ones, I have drugs for the stress!! LOL fortunately, they don't help with the waterworks, I can cry at the drop of a hanky and this kid can make me feel like the worst mom on the planet!!

[susie]

A sense of humour is the one good tool that is needed in these situations...and the most difficult to find when you need it. I'll tell you about the moment that mine came back...

 

My number two and I had three years of this teen stuff. It was awful, and it certainly has changed how I deal with the younger ones today (I still miss the innocent days).

 

My four kids are all bilingual...we speak English at home and French in the community, although if you ask them, the kids might admit to thinking and dreaming in French (it is, after all, the language of the community and of play at school).

 

One day, this boy of mine was being more than rude to me, in English, when a French neighbor came by....and the little sh*t turned to French and began the same tirade in French!!!! THAT was the moment that I realized that he was playing a big role-playing game, and I was being taken in by it.

 

Of course, role-playing is what growing up is all about. Silly me thought that he'd have been smart enough to also be respectful and kind while he was at it...but they get so into their role that they almost belive it themselves, and as far as I can tell, they need to separate from who they were into who they turn out to be.

 

Hopefully without either the parents ot the kid burning too many bridges along the way...because one day, the'll need to know that they can come back as respected people in their own rights.

 

This isn't a problem for them, it seems....nowadays that sh*tty teenager is the most loving and kind and thinking and caring of fifteen year olds. He's 'forgotten' about the way he was (or enjoys having been unconditionally loved throughout it all), and actually tells off his little sister who is just beginning the tacky period.

 

I remind him that he was SO much worse than she will ever be, and he blanks out and refuses to believe it. I KNOW, I was there.

 

I don't think we're finished with him just yet...at fifteen, I'm pretty sure that this is way too early to be out of the woods with this growing up thing. He's now gone from rebellion to far right and almost intolerant of an kind of bad behavior. The pendulum swings.

 

The best part is that we didn't burn too man emotional bridges during this time and so we can get together and speak of the past and the future and respect, if not agree, who we each are and how we got there.

 

This is something that I have worked for even from before I had kids (I was BAD). So when my own mom comes to France and pushes all my buttons til I turn back into a screaming sixteen year old and she smiles and says 'See? You haven't changed!', I can see her needs for what they are for her and realize that she can push those buttons because it was her that installed them...and at the same time feel that I have done okay by my own kids.

[Stephanie]

Melissa, I am truly sorry to hear what has happened in your family. I can only imagine the heart break and will be praying for you and your son.

 

Do not feel powerless, you have a great ability to effect this situation through prayer. God truly can move mountains.

 

I have five sons and pray daily now, before they get to the age of girl friends that God will protect them from such people and influences. I've told them so many times about the story of Samson and Delilah, about how his strength and purpose were stolen because of his determination to have this woman.

 

I think you made some good decisions, removing him from the scene for a while and letting him cool off. Even though I know it looks like he's heating up with anger.

 

I don't have any real answers, but wanted to try to encourage you. We have another forum called Streams in the Desert that deal with lots of issues that require prayer, and there are some very strong prayer warriors on this board!

 

 

[JCK88]

Melissa,

 

We had a similar situation here with our teen daughter when she was 14 (except for the staying out all night thing) She was "in love" with a horrid boy who did drugs and was a gang member. We are conservative people and have brought her up well and of course, we freaked out! Things were really awful and she said the most horrible things to us. We got the entire family down to family counseling where the counselor told me that I should invite this boy to our house and only let her see him here where I could keep an eye on it because she was determined to see him one way or another despite anything we did or said.

 

 

So that's what I did--and then, we took him with us to a fancy restaurant where his manners were so bad even my daughter had her eyes opened. (She had to tell him to take off his backwards baseball cap at the table and she was kicking him under the table to tell him to use his napkin, etc. We acted like nothing was wrong and cheerfully made conversation with him throughout the meal. (He actually was a very bright boy and likable in some ways, so I learned to see what my daughter saw in him and didn't hate his guts entirely although I did not *like* him, I could be pleasant in his presence.)

 

In time, after she saw him with our "permission" for weeks and weeks, the lustre wore off the relationship and she dumped him. He got a new girlfriend the very next day---and my daughter doesn't blame us for the break up. She tells me that had we forbid her to see him, she would have run away with him. He was arrested recently and his girlfriend was charged with assault with a hazardous substance recently. Our daughter told me she is SO relieved to have gotten him out of her system. She says that if I forbid her to see him, she probably would still be with him!

 

Now, my daughter has gone from being rebellious and angry to being a responsible young lady with good grades in school, a record-breaker for the track team, and a well-respected person at her part-time job. She is now 16 and more serious, easier to be with, and a joy to be around.

 

I am telling you this because if there is a base of love and understanding between you and your son at rock bottom, it will come shining through once again when you weather the storms. Our daughter tells us that what prevented her from actually taking off with this boy was that she knew it would break our hearts, but she says she was sorely tempted. She also says now she is not interested in having a boyfriend until she gets to college because she has decided that high school boys are all jerks, LOL (I assured her that college boys can be the same but that if she keeps her standards high she will one day find a nice a guy as her Dad)

 

Take heart Melissa. I would suggest talking with him, even by phone if he is still at the relatives. Try writing to him, showing your concern. Explain why you have taken the stance you have. Make it clear you are not sending him away from the family, that you are concerned about where this girl in his life will lead him. Remind him of your family's values. But always, always, make it clear that you prize and value him and that all action you have taken is out of love. They need to hear that.

 

However, from talking with other parents I have learned that trying to keep two determined teens apart is a very difficult thing.

 

Maturity and time will help--and as long as you have tried all these years to communicate, the things you have said and tried to teach will come to the fore at some point. You just have to be patient, accept your son for who he is unconditionally and let him know he is loved despite mistakes. Admit you also make them, let him know you aren't the dictators, but that you are his very human, very loving family.

 

Prayer is something important. Every single day, I still pray to God to keep it in my daughter's heart to want to do what is right. I also thank Him every day for answering this prayer.

 

Human beings somehow have to rebel against those they hold dear in order to become independent. If you can defuse enough of the hot buttons, they can have their rebellion and keep the family trust, too.

 

I don't have answers but I want you to not be in despair and think you are a bad parent. We felt like the worst parents on the face of the planet two years ago. Now, still a little shaky from it all, we have decided we are sorta ok!!

 

Susie is right about not burning the emotional bridges between you and your son. If you are hurting right now, stop and think about how he must also be hurting. He can be a model citizen in the relatives' home because there is not the emotionally charged history there--and they weren't the ones who took him away from his girl, etc.--and probably also because he basically IS a nice kid. I found that if I tried to look at things from my daughter's view, and made clear to her that I was considering her side, she was more willing to look at things from the parent's side.

 

Be encouraged. All parents go through the dark nights of the soul of their teens at some point. I am certain I am not done with them despite that things are going well now! Talk to a lot of other parents -- you'll feel better. But also keep talking to the kid--that's important.

[Stephanie]

[franksgirl]

When my oldest was a teenger she started dating a boy that we didn't approve of. Their beliefs were different, he was a "bad boy" and she had always been a church mouse. The more we tried to pull them apart the closer they got. Finally, we pushed her right out of the door. She went to live at his house . . . got pregnant, of course, and they married. Two weeks after they married she lost the baby. Life went on and eventually they had two beautiful children that they both adore. He stepped up to the plate and became a good husband to her. Now he is a Christian like she is and it could be a wonderful, happy story. But guess what? She has decided she doesn't love him and married him for all the wrong reasons. They are getting a divorce. Should we have just backed off in the beginning? Who knows? With raising children, unfortunately, you never know how you are doing until you are done! Pray, follow your gut instinct and remember to keep the communication going. You don't want to lose your son . . . .trust that what you have instilled in him over the years is still there . . . somewhere.

[zzelle]

very true susan

[MommyofSeven]

I can't add anything more to this than what's already been said, but I will pray for you and your family.

 

Welcome to Mrs. S.

 

Mo7

[lunamother]

I guess I've been 'lucky' in that *I* was the trouble making, defiant, parent crazing teen. somehow, I made it through that intact (mostly), and just a little worse for the wear.

so when my older ones (now 22 and 27 and both responsible adults) were teens (still have one to go, but he's only 8)the stuff they did was, even if a Big Deal, still pretty mild compared to what *I* had done.

the shock value just wasn't there, so they stopped doing it

[susie]

I hope that my Mom NEVER tells my kids how bad I was.

[MomM]

I had a girlfriend in high school, who was dating a boy her parents didn't approve of. The more they disapproved, the more she defended him, and eventually married and had 3 children with him. Tragically, she developed MS and he dumped her in a nursing home and forgot her (had a new girlfriend, etc). The last time I got to visit with her in the nursing home, we talked about their relationship, and she admitted that if her parents hadn't disapproved so much, she would not have married him. She died not too long after that.

This is such a tough situation. Keep praying for wisdom and discernment.

[Shandy]

Wow. This is such hard stuff. I'm so sorry, Melissa. I can feel your pain and confusion. Maybe because I've been there myself with my oldest son.

 

I *wish* my parents had stood up and said to me "What the h*ll are you doing?!" Neither of them ever swore, but it would have gotten my attention. To this day, I think my whole life would have been changed and I would have missed out on a lot of heartbreak if my parents hadn't just looked aside and hoped for the best.

 

When my son went thru his horrible teen times, I stood straight and didn't move from where I had to stand, even tho I was crying while I stood firm. He saw me cry. He saw me stand firm.

 

He still did what he chose and went thru a few years of hell.

 

But now he is so glad my husband and I took a stand for what was *good*, even tho it was apparent his choices were breaking our hearts. He's a good husband and father and a Godly young man now.

 

It was really REALLY hard.

 

I don't know what the answer to all this stuff is. I tend to think that it's important to get boys out of school mode by age 16 and get them working physically, even while continuing their studies. That won't protect them from foolish choices, but it can help to contain some of it.

 

Most of it is just that we are all individuals, and we are given the same freedom of choice by God to choose what we will.

 

I chose badly. But I've recieved a lot of grace from Him. "He who is forgiven much, loves much." And man, I do!!

 

My son chose badly, but all of his bad choices have been, like, redeemed, so that he is now helping young folks who are from really bad families and have no hope. He's using his experiences for good now.

 

I do not look forward to any of my other 7 going thru what my oldest did, but I know that each of them will have to face themselves. Sadly, that often happens during the teenage years when they have little experience with real life and tons of hormonal rollercoaster rushes.

 

I lived thru it. My son lived thru it. A lot of us lived thru it. Your son will live thru it.

 

Just *try* not to take it personally. His life is about him, not you. He's moving forward (albeit in a very foolish way), and he sees you as holding him back, trying to keep him the same well mannered youngster he always was.

 

I think you are right, myself. But he doesn't.

 

Just stand firm, don't take his words or actions personally (say it with me "His actions are about himself, not me"), and let him walk out his choices. *You* are not going to be able to change him. All you can do is be consistent and good and loving...and watch from the sidelines.

 

(((Melissa))) I hope this is all over sooner rather than later, and that there is a happy ending to the story.

[Evergreen]

Originally Posted By: Shurleen

Wow. This is such hard stuff. I'm so sorry, Melissa. I can feel your pain and confusion. Maybe because I've been there myself with my oldest son.

When my son went thru his horrible teen times, I stood straight and didn't move from where I had to stand, even tho I was crying while I stood firm. He saw me cry. He saw me stand firm.

He still did what he chose and went thru a few years of hell.

It was really REALLY hard.

I don't know what the answer to all this stuff is.


I lived thru it. My son lived thru it. A lot of us lived thru it. Your son will live thru it.

(((Melissa))) I hope this is all over sooner rather than later, and that there is a happy ending to the story.

I could had written the above post myself- except I am still waiting....

I have been through this with me oldest two. With the oldest it was a girl. We did try and go with the flow and things went from bad to worst. At 18 he moved out and in with her. They eventually got married and now have a son. He is 22 and she is 23- and they are totally unhappy with eachother -but I am doing what I can- which is to pray, pray, pray.

My middle son will be 18 on Wednesday. He moved out Saturday. He recently did a month in bootcamp he is very angry with us about. He was staying out all night and drinking and smoking pot (both boys were raised in a Christian home BTW- and they KNOW God's Word) We were going to ask him to move out about 6 mo. ago and the police told us we could not until he was 18- so we took him to the Jr probation officer and put him in the system and that is how he ended up going to bootcamp. I hate that he had to go and I hate the damage it has done to our relationship -but it did do him some good -and at least I did take a stand and did not move.

I dont have any answers except cling to God for peace and wisdom -and stay in prayer.

I have a 10 year old at home now and he look at his brothers and says I will never act like that but I remind him they loved God at his age too...the road is narrow...

(edited to add- I am not trying to convince him he will end up like them- but that the choice will be his in the end andhe will have thengs that will try and pull him in the wrong direction and it will be up to him to make the right choices) also- middle son was (is) a VERY hard worker. He had 2 trucks by age 16- paid all his own gas, insurance, cell phone -this is part of what made him feel like he did not need to be accountable to us though- also we hesatate a little longer to take away a truch he had paid for than we might have had it been one we paid for.

On a side note- I am probably not the one to give advice- but if I had had a relative to send either one of mine to - to remove them from the situation- I might have choose that road.

[susie]

My second son was so bad, and I was so shocked about it, that I thought for a while that the situation had trashed the entire family.

 

But it didn't. He's fine, and now it's number three that's 'starting'.

 

But, this time, all of us can see the funny side of it and we have perspective and we all know that it'ss gonna be okay. A few years ago, I'd never thought to see the day when the ten year old and I could have a laugh about the tribulations of the twelve year old's teenage pangs...much less that the ten year od could see the whole situation so clearly and still have hope for everyone's future.

 

Chin up.

[mommato3boys]

Melissa, ((((((hugs)))))))) my sister, I know your heart is heavy. See my name well it says it all...our youngest just graduated high school on 6/6 and on 6/16 left for Marine bootcamp. We have boys (well young men) ages 23, 20 & 18. They are all still alive and were never repo'ed by Child Servies. (darn it [just joking] )

 

Your son is in that age of what I like to call "I now understand why some species eat their young" There were days I did not want to get out of bed because I did not want to deal with the boys and their attitudes. But I prevailed. I made sure I told them every day that I loved them and if it was wrong yesterday it was still wrong today and it will be wrong next week. Hubby and I never budged on that. Even at 16 they are still in a black and white world. There world is just starting to gray in areas and lines blur a little.

 

Let me explain the mindset of teenagers to you -- as parents are now uncool, you don't understand, I am 16 I should be able to do _______ and if you wont' let me that means you don't trust me. Oh yeah I have heard it all then some. Our oldest son has put us through some MAJOR GRIEF and he is paying for his "sins" now but he knows that no matter what he is loved and is always welcomed in our home. HOWEVER, those house rules he hated so bad well they are still there and will be in effect in 20 years.

 

Melissa, my boys and all the youth we have ever worked with (dh is a former youth pastor) go through this "phase" starting about 9th grade, it is like their bodies and minds have been invaded by aliens. They start coming back around when they are in the 11th or 12th grade. Boys suffer from PMS don't laugh they have mood swings worse than any girl, thank goodness theirs only last a couple of years. Your son is wanting to be free to be his own man but he still wants the the boundries you have set for him. And now days it is even tougher because there are some many broken homes, and absent parents that kids have not boundries. So when a boundry kid dates or is best friends with a non-boundry there peer pressure is a killer. Our sons all had curfews, they all dated girls at one time or another that didn't have curfews (it didn't last long because the girls got ticked because my son had to be home by midnight on Friday and Saturday night)

 

Hang it there he will come around it may not be today, or next week or even next month and he will never be who he was when all of this started but I promise you will see a glimpse of you boy in that young man that will one day sit at your table again.

 

Until then invest in knee pads (because you will be on your knees alot praying for this by) and Miss Clariol (to cover the gary)

 

I would suggest when he comes back inviting the girl and her parents over to dinner. Explain your rules and let them know it has nothing to do with liking or disliking their daughter. It is about the house rules and morals you have for you and your family. And let them know their daughter is welcome any time but the house rules apply to everyone. Explain to her parents that you feel that they are trying to undermine you by inviting your son to move in with them.

 

for you and for you and your family.

[ANewMe]

Thanks to all of you....your prayers and advice mean so much.

 

Recent update....we had given SIL explicit instructions not to allow him to use phone to call anyone but family. Unfortunatley, she did not agree with us and gave him the phone anyway. DH will not stand up to his SIL. I have before and unfortunatley that is why she resents me and is probably why she is doing as she pleases. They say that he is only talking to 2 people and named them....I told them he lies about that kind of stuff. He may be talking to her and making plans. We heard a rumor that they broke up but I doubt it VERY seriously. My StepDad took something of my mom's to the jewelry store and the girl was in there looking at something. When she saw him she left. She could've been looking at anything but he has already told her and us he's buying her a ring. So here I am....I have come to the conclusion I can't do anything. I'm fighting a no win battle. If SIL won't back us up and DH sticks his head in the sand then I'm finished.

 

I understand DH way of thinking....you see my son was DH son with his former wife who committed suicide when he was 4yrs. old. I met him shortly afterwards, married and I adopted son. He calls me mom (his choice). We have always been very close and he has never let what happened to his mom define who he was or his path. I forget he's not mine and so does my family. We do not use the term "step" in my home either. In our eyes he is not different than the others. But my DH seems to try to always do a little extra and give more slack because of what happened. He is DH golden boy.

 

Shurleen, I'm going to do exactly what you said. Stand firm on house rules, love him to pieces and watch from the sideline and be there when he falls. I can't fix this for him...all I can do is make sure my home continues to be the home that we make it without the outside influences.

 

Evergreen...I will continue to pray that things work out for you. PM me anytime and we will VENT together!!!

 

Thanks again all of you for the encouragment and prayers. It means so much.

[susie]

I would advise to NOT try and transfer your need to control your son through SIL. She'll do what she wants, and so will your son. It's time they both learned.

 

You don't need to fight with either of them for something that isn't happening in your house. And it's not as if SIL listens or your son responds...well, he responds to SIL....and profits from it....but that's their problem.

[ANewMe]

I have "no need to control" my son. We are just trying to teach him that he must obey the rules. Rule was no talking on the phone. We gave him that restriction before and my Dad knowingly gave him the phone to use because he wanted to be a "cool" Papaw. The trouble we had from just that few hours of talking to her were unbelievable. My Dad now regrets that decision and sees that we have a problem. and as long he is a minor under my care it is my business what he does, when he does it no matter if it's under someone elses roof or not. But I have no NEED to CONTROL my son only to raise him right. I'm sure you meant well and I do appreciate your reply.

[ANewMe]

mommato3....thank you so much. Looking for knee pads and Miss Clairol tommorrow!!!! LOL. I really enjoyed your post and appreciate your support. We are kind of past the point of inviting the parents to dinner. When they gave him a phone after we took his they had to come to the house to get it. We tried to have a rational converation at that time and explain our concerns and it went right over the Mom's head. At that point my husband told her that as far as he was concerned they were finished and he didn't want her anywhere near him. It got very heated...so you would think after my husband pitched a redneck fit the woman would have chalked us up as being crazy and tell her daughter to please stay away from the crazy people.....no...the mother went to the ballfield where my son was working and pulled him out of the concession stand to have a talk with him then took him to the car to see her daughter.

 

Actually we've tried to have a meeting and talk 2 or 3 times. She said that her daughter made A's and B's and did nothing wrong. She didn't need to check anything or ask about anything because her side of the story was all that counted and all we did was deny him things.....OK....my blood pressure is rising so I'm going to stop venting.

 

Anyway, I got a kick out of your post because I think the same way that you do...I just hope we can get through it without caving in the name of peace..

 

Melissa

[westbrook]

I am a no nonsense Mother! reading what you wrote.... I am responding with only the information you have given.

 

 

Your son has too much time on his hands! does he drive? time for him to get a job and pay for his insurance! doesn't drive? then it is time for him to drive so he can get a job! to pay for his insurance and car!

 

you will be surprised how tired going to school and working is.

 

about the girl... nothing you can do! embrace her! that is all.

 

stop talking about her it only drives them closer together.

 

get dad and son to do chores together! replace the plumbing or window, run a new water pipe, do things that your son and dad can do together and the son learns how to be a home owner!

 

have them plan a project, buy the lumber or concrete or ???, do the project.

 

 

'you have to be the kind of person your want your chiod to grow up and become'

 

 

[susie]

Originally Posted By: momnplanmode

I have "no need to control" my son. We are just trying to teach him that he must obey the rules. Rule was no talking on the phone. We gave him that restriction before and my Dad knowingly gave him the phone to use because he wanted to be a "cool" Papaw. The trouble we had from just that few hours of talking to her were unbelievable. My Dad now regrets that decision and sees that we have a problem. and as long he is a minor under my care it is my business what he does, when he does it no matter if it's under someone elses roof or not. But I have no NEED to CONTROL my son only to raise him right. I'm sure you meant well and I do appreciate your reply.

I DO mean well. Otherwise I wouldn't bother to post.

What I mean is that he is at HER house right now, so your rules don't count. She has her own rules and doesn't want to listen to yours...probably because it's her house. I can't see you being able to tell the both of them that he can't phone from her house, and I can't see anyone listening to you about it.

I'm sure this makes you frustrated. But whatcha gonna do? I'd back off and let em do what they are gonna do anyway and let em live with the results.

You've done your best, now let him learn from experience.


(PS I was responding to this part of your post...'we had given SIL explicit instructions not to allow him to use phone to call anyone but family. Unfortunatley, she did not agree with us and gave him the phone anyway. DH will not stand up to his SIL. I have before and unfortunatley that is why she resents me and is probably why she is doing as she pleases')

[ANewMe]

That would all be fine and good BUT SIL knew situation before he came. She told us IF we would send him up there she would get it under control. He would not have access to a phone and she BLASTED my father for undermining us and allowing him to use the phone. (My father now sees the damage that it did and he backs us) She then turned around and did the same thing if not worst. That is why I am angry. If we had sent him up ther just to get away and work and help them...yes your point would be valid for sure...BUT...that was not the agreement before he left. We were trying to get him in a place where he would have no contact with her or her mother and they knew that and agreed it was best and they would see to it that there would be none as best as they could....now she is undermining....us with that by allowing it. So NOW when he comes home we are going to have a worst problem than when we sent him there.

[ANewMe]

And further more...I have to say...and I may be the only one based on what you are saying ....if my neice was doing the same things to her parents and they allowed her to come to me to get a punk out of her head and we agreed on the plan of action and rules I WOULD NOT go against them. Even if she just came for a visit and wanted to make a phone call to him and I knew she was grounded would I allow it because if I KNEW she was grounded I'd be going against my brother and his rules and as adults and parents noone has the right to undermine a child's parents...NOONE....regardless of their own personal opinion.