Newbie's first questions

[Fritz_Monroe]

Hello canners. I introduced myself in the other thread, so will just say that I just got into prepping and will have a garden for the first time this year. Because of that, I think I'll probably start doing some canning, so I'm here doing my pre-purchase homework.

 

I notice that there seems to be mainly All American, Mirro and Presto canners available. Is that about the only brands? Are there any others that I should look into? How do these stack up quality-wise? Just from looking at pics, it's fairly obvious that the All American is a bit heavier duty than the others, and the AA uses the jiggly thing, but what other differences are there between these brands?

 

Next, I know that a pressure cooker shouldn't be used as a canner, but how about the other way around? Could I cook up a batch of beans in the canner?

 

Finally, I saw a couple posts about not being able to use some of them on the glass topped stoves. Why is that? Could they damage the tops of the stove? We have a gas stove, but plan on moving next year, and want to be prepared in case the stove is electric.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Jewlzm]

Hiya!

 

To answer your questions.. there are a few other brands of canners one being the wisconsin aluminum foundry .. Maitres makes a pressure cooker but Im not sure they make a canner..and there are steam canners also (working on learning how to use mine). I myself aspire to get an All American I hear such fabulous things about them and they apparently last forever. They come with the jiggly thing and a numerical gauge. (Not fond of the jiggly thing at the moment)

 

I use my pressure canner to also cook meat in. I have been told that is fine. Do not however get a pressure cooker and think you should be able to can in it (I have been told several times it is a no no however I can never remember the reason why). Our humble leader Darlene will be able to tell you why.

 

As for canning on glass top stoves. It can scratch and mar the surface of them and cause them to crack. Also I have heard that they dont heat as high as they should for canning (not sure if thats true but thought I would put it)

 

I hope this helps a bit. Sorry if I rambled.

[Violet]

You can cook in a canner, but not can in a cooker. The only brands are those that you mentioned that are large enough for canning. I know there are a few brands that say you are able to can in them, but they are not large enough. In order to be a canner, you have to be able to put 4 quart sized jars in it.

I say get the biggest you can afford. I like the 23 quart sized because you can stack pints and half pints, getting done a lot faster.

The "jiggly thing" is the weighted gauge canner. The dial gauge canner has what is a counterweight, it is only for allowing pressure to be built up inside and hold it there, it is not for regulating pressure, like a weighted gauge does.

The All American are more expensive and heavier. I can't handle the weight because of my back. It all depends upon how much you want to spend and the features you want. If you get a dial gauge canner, as in the Presto, you have to get the gauge tested before you ever use it and each year before use. So, you need to be sure you can get that done where you live. Or, you can do as I recently did, I got the 3 piece weight set for mine and use it as a weighted gauge canner. It is fine to do that, and Presto sells the weight set seperately. Mirro has only the weighted gauge, and the new All American have both a weight and a dial gauge. The All American doesn't have a gasket to ever replace. So, it all depends upon personal preference.

You don't can in a cooker because they heat up and cool down too quickly. The time a regular canner takes to do both of those is factored into the safe processing times.

A steam canner is not a safe method of preserving foods, not even pickled things or fruits, etc. according to USDA standards.

So, it depends upon whether a person is willing to take a chance with them.

The glass top stove we used at the extension office will not heat up enough for canning on. It keeps shutting down because it overheats. I also had a friend that permanently pitted hers the first time canning on it. Jam spilled on it and that is how it happened. Some people can on theirs, but you need to have the right kind of flat bottomed canner. Some will not work on a glass top stove, and they will usually say on their site if they will work or not. That, and they have to be a certain diameter, not more than 1 inch larger all the way around the heating part of the burner surface. I think some may be 2 inches, but there is a size restriction. I know some people use a large stock pot instead of a boiling water bath canner due to the size restrictions.

I know of some people who have had the tops of their glass stoves crack due to the weight and heat of the canners.

If you do get an electric coil burner stove, you will need a special canning element so as not to ruin your regular burner. That, and so the porcelain won't discolor and turn brown. I ruined two electric stoves before I learned all of that years ago.

I have a nice gas stove now, which I love. I would not go back to electric if given the choice. The gas stove is so easy to regulate, instant up and down of the heat.

 

 

 

[Fritz_Monroe]

I'd like to get that AA, but I have a problem with the price and not knowing for sure that we would stick with it. The AA doesn't have a gasket, huh? Interesting.

 

My mother always water bath canned tomatos and lima beans when I was growing up and still does today. Mmmm, those lima beans are awesome. She always just used a crab pot and a jar rack, at least I think that's what it is called.

 

I'm hoping not to have to do electric, but we don't want to have to limit our house shopping based on the stove. If we do get electric, I will be getting a heavy duty gas burners like they sell over at Northern Tool. I'd use that for canning and for my homebrewing. I would also get some pricing to install a propane system.

 

I have read many of the threads around here and those are the only questions I've has so far. But I'm sure I'll have a bunch more after I do some more homework.

[Darlene]

Welcome FM, we're glad you've joined us here at MrsS and are comfortable enough to ask questions...we love helping new people on their prepping journey.

 

Ditto to what Violet said. I've canned in several different brands of canners, and from my experience, the AA is by far the best out there. My experience also has proven that any of the canners will process my foods correctly and safely, so it's a personal choice. You can look on ebay and can get good deals if you're patient on the AA canners there.

 

Alot of foods that were water bath canned years ago, may or may not have been safe to do so. Even moreso these days, because the genetic composition of so many of our fruits/veggies/meats have been changed, it is even more unsafe to waterbath can most veggies.

 

My personal philosophy about all this is that I put alot of time, money and work into home preserving foods. The last thing I want to do is waste all of that, following home canning practices in the past, just because 'that's the way they always used to do it'. The safe home canning process knowledge base has grown exponentially over the years, providing guidelines that are based on scientific proof and fact, and therefore insure that the foods you home can, will have the maximum potential to be safe to feed to our families.

 

My personality is the type that tends to push the envelope, and I have done so many times in home canning, wanting to prove myself wrong. Well, I did prove myself wrong and it was a waste of time trying to do it *my way*, instead of following a few basic guidelines that home canning requires. Consequently, when I share that "this is a no no or that is a nono", it's because I over understand the inclination to throw caution to the wind, but I also know the irresponsibility of doing so.

 

Let us know if we can help answer anything else. I'm really excited for you to start canning...I know you'll be like the rest of us...proud mama's when we look at all our pretty jars. I can look at a jar I canned a year ago and still feel this joy and pride in my heart as I say to myself, "it's so PRETTY!"...rofl

 

But then again, suffice it to say, I'm a little outta control when it comes to canning...I love it that much.

 

 

Other than THAT, I'm innocent.

 

lol

[westbrook]

I use a propane burner.. the kind for deep frying a turkey to can on. It is usually 100+ degrees in the summer when I need to can and without air conditioning, I needed to can outside. So I have a kitchen set up for just that outside.

[Snowmom]

 

First off, I have an electric stove and have always used it for canning the way it is. I have never had a special coil.

 

I love my AA canner and have had it for close to 35 years now. I also have canned four pints in my pressure sauce pan, as that is all I had for a while. It does work, but if you are wanting to do a lot at a time, the AA canner is so much better. Mine is old enough that it does not have a jiggler on it, and I like it with just the gauge.

 

 

 

 

[Darlene]

You do know Snowmom, that you can replace those with the weighted gauges? I bought an older AA off ebay that was the old petcock, and changed it over to the weighted gauge. I just screwed the one out and the new one back in

 

[Snowmom]

 

I don't like the jigglers so what I have is the gauge and I like it. If I used the sauce pan more, I might check for a different gauge, but I hardly ever use it anymore.

 

I remember I was so afraid of the canner when I first got it, but then after a time or two of canning in it, I would never give it up for anything.

 

Those of you who have the jigglers, can have them, I like the gauge.

 

 

 

[Fritz_Monroe]

Quote:

But then again, suffice it to say, I'm a little outta control when it comes to canning...I love it that much.

Yep, I've seen the pictures of that huge pile that you have in the one room of your house.

I have such a hard time with the price of the AA. But the wife and I have learned our lesson about not buying what we really want. We have both settled for something that was not quite what we wanted to get. We usually end up buying the one we really wanted eventually.

So we will probably end up with an AA, but not sure quite yet.

So, can you can milk, cheese and butter? In our preps, we are sorely lacking in milk products. Granted, we only have between 1 and 2 months of food, but very little of it is milk.

[ArmyOfFive4God]

According to the safety guidelines- no milk, cheese, butter, or thickening agents (cornstarch, flour, oats, potato flakes, rice, etc). Of course, it depends on who you ask

 

BTW, welcome!

[Darlene]

Originally Posted By: Fritz_Monroe

So, can you can milk, cheese and butter? In our preps, we are sorely lacking in milk products. Granted, we only have between 1 and 2 months of food, but very little of it is milk.

Violet shared with us the following in regard to home canning butter. It's an excellent post and lays out many important details as to the 'whys' of not home canning butter:


"I work at my local county extension office. We do not recommend sealing butter or margarine in a jar, it can lead to botulism. From National Center for Home Food Preservation :

Should I use directions for canning butter at home that I see on the Internet?
Indeed, there are some directions for 'canning' butter in circulation on the Internet. Most of what we have seen are not really canning, as they do not have Boiling Water or Pressure Canning processes applied to the filled jar. Jars are preheated, the butter is melted down and poured into the jars, and the lids are put on the jars. Some directions say to put the jars in the refrigerator as they re-harden, but to keep shaking them at regular intervals to keep the separating butter better mixed as it hardens. This is merely storing butter in canning jars, not ‘canning’. True home canning is when the food is heated enough to destroy or sufficiently acid enough to prevent growth of all spores of Clostridium botulinum (that causes botulism) and other pathogens during room temperature storage on the shelf.

Additionally, when you consider the economics of the process (energy costs involved with heating, cost of jars and lids, etc.), even if the butter is bought on sale, it may not be economically viable to prepare butter to store for years in this manner. Good quality butter is readily available at all times, if butter is needed for fresh use. If the concern is about emergency food supplies, there are dry forms of butter that can be purchased and stored, oils that can be used in an emergency, or commercially canned butter in tins (although we have only seen this for sale from other countries). Melted and re-hardened butter may not function the same as original butter in many types of baking anyway.

There are a few issues with the common directions circulating on the Internet at this time (Spring 2006):

Physical safety and food quality: In the provided directions, the jars are preheated in an oven (dry-heat), which is not recommended for canning jars. Manufacturers of canning jars do not recommend baking or oven canning in the jars. It is very risky with regard to causing jar breakage. There is no guarantee that the jars heated in this dry manner are sufficiently heated to sterilize them, as we do not have data on sterilizing jar surfaces by this dry-heating method.

The butter is not really being 'canned'; it is simply being melted and put in canning jars, and covered with lids. Due to some heat present from the hot melted butters and preheated jars, some degree of vacuum is pulled on the lids to develop a seal. It rarely is as strong a vacuum as you obtain in jars sealed through heat processing. The practice in these 'canned' butter directions is referred to as 'open-kettle' canning in our terminology, which is really no canning at all, since the jar (with product in it) is not being heat processed before storage.

Although mostly fat, butter is a low-acid food. Meat, vegetables, butter, cream, etc. are low-acid products that will support the outgrowth of C. botulinum and toxin formation in a sealed jar at room temperature. Low-acid products have to be pressure-canned by tested processes to be kept in a sealed jar at room temperature. It is not clear what the botulism risk is from such a high-fat product, but to store a low-acid moist food in a sealed jar at room temperature requires processing to destroy spores. A normal salted butter has about 16-17% water, some salt, protein, vitamins and minerals. Some butter-like spreads have varying amounts of water in them. We have no kind of database in the home canning/food processing arena to know what the microbiological concerns would be in a butter stored at room temperature in a sealed jar. In the absence of that, given that it is low-acid and that fats can protect spores from heat if they are in the product during a canning process, we cannot recommend storing butter produced by these methods under vacuum sealed conditions at room temperature.

Some other directions do call for 'canning' the filled jars of butter in a dry oven. This also is not 'canning'. There is not sufficient, research-based documentation to support that 'canning' any food in a dry oven as described on this web page or any page that proposes oven canning is even sufficient heating to destroy bacteria of concern, let alone enough to produce a proper seal with today's home canning lids.

In conclusion, with no testing having been conducted to validate these methods, we would NOT recommend or endorse them as a safe home-canning process, let alone for storing butter at room temperature for an extended period. We do know that the methods given for preheating empty jars, or even filled jars, in a dry oven are not recommended by the jar manufacturers or by us for any food. Aside from the physical safety and quality issues, and the fact that it is not canning at all, if there happened to be spores of certain bacteria in there, these procedures will not destroy those spores for safe room temperature storage."

For me, that type of information teaches me more than to just rely on someone saying "I've done this for years" and I think it's fair that we share those details with others.

The MREdepot sells commercially canned butter that is perfect for long term storage. One can rely on its safety in tough times and the cost is cheaper than attempting to home can butter themselves. Butter is around $3.59/lb and when prepared in a home situation as proposed in this thread, after the water is evaporated out, what weight does one have left? The MREdepot's Red Feather butter works out to about $3.94/lb. When you consider the price of a pound of butter, subtract the end weight after cooking, add in the cost of a jar, seal and band, you'll find that it costs more to home can than it does to purchase the other.

Dairy products in general, are not considered safe canning practices, and I personally do not do them, nor do I advocate doing them. There are other ways with which to store dairy products, so I've chosen those avenues.

Take heart, if you have 1-2 months worth of preps put away, you've got a great start. The fact that y'all are looking to broaden those capabilities will serve you and your family well. A little at a time is great progress in and of itself. We've all walked this journey and I'm serious when I say that any question that we can help you with, we'd be more than glad to.

As far as getting an AA, I'll just suggest again to check on Ebay...you can easily get one for 1/2 price there on used ones. With the AA's it doesn't matter if it's not brand new...they're tanks and last forever.

[quiltys41]

First off...welcome to MrsS! Nice to find you here and asking questions.

 

I have a Mirro canner with the weight. It also has the gasket. And that is it's only drawback. If I had it to do over again, I would spend the extra money and get the American. I have had this canner for three years and have had to replace the gasket once already. I keep a spare one just in case too. And they ran me about 25.00 each, so in the long run, you are going to spend just as much, if not more by buying the AA canner. Hope that helps some...

 

Q

[Fritz_Monroe]

Originally Posted By: quiltys41

I have a Mirro canner with the weight. It also has the gasket. And that is it's only drawback. If I had it to do over again, I would spend the extra money and get the American. I have had this canner for three years and have had to replace the gasket once already. I keep a spare one just in case too. And they ran me about 25.00 each, so in the long run, you are going to spend just as much, if not more by buying the AA canner. Hope that helps some...

Q

Very helpful. This post alone has made it so I can justify the difference in price between the Mirro and the AA. I'll keep an eye on Ebay. Thanks

As for the butter, I didn't know that MREdepot sold the butter, I'll look over there. I'll pick up a can of butter and cheese to try it out. I'd hate to get some and not like it.

Thanks again.

[Darlene]

The butter is VERY good...I have a stash of that. The cheese is impressive.

 

Canned is canned but considering that, I have been more than satisfactorily pleased. If you decide to order, lemme know, and I think I have some discount codes you can use to buy.

[HSmom]

I've done it for years...

 

... can on a glass stove top, that is.

 

My stove's owner's manual says nothing for or against canning, so I do it. So far, so good.

[Fritz_Monroe]

Darlene, I will be buying a can of each soon, but don't know when quite yet. Ever tried that canned meat? I have a mental block about buying something called "beef chunks" Just doesn't sound appetizing.

[Darlene]

Yeah, I know what you mean FM...I do my own canning of meats, whether it be chicken, ham, beef, etc. I don't trust that commercial stuff that I can do myself anyway.

 

If you buy a can, put in WARRIFLES in the code box to get a 20% discount...I think that one still works, if not lemme know.

[JCK88]

I have a Mirro canner and recently needed to stock up on gaskets...and learned from the parts place that Mirro does not make the parts anymore. I had to wait several months to get replacements. So...if anyone is finding Mirro canners out there, this is something to think about!

I got another one, a Presto..just to get through the season. But, I am thinking that the AA without the gasket would be the best way to go.

[Fritz_Monroe]

Darlene, thanks for the code. I just ordered a can of butter and a can of cheese to try it out. That butter, would you use it the same as regular butter or does it have less water?

 

I think the Mirro is off the list. I guess I'll go with the AA and not worry about the cost. Thanks.

[Cat]

Once in a while, we'll find something that initially costs more, but makes the long-term quality test, making it well worth the money. That's what the All-American canner is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Darlene]

FM, it's been about a year since I ordered mine and tried it out. All I remember is that I thought it was in some ways, better tasting than the regular butter I can buy at the store. If I remember correctly, it was exactly like normal butter and would have the same abilities, whether in cooking or freshly spread on something. I don't know about the water content. Tomorrow, I'll go out to the garage and get a can and see if it has the water content on it and let you know.

[Fritz_Monroe]

I ordered a can of butter and a can of cheese a couple weeks ago to try it out. We just cracked the butter open and it is really good. We haven't opened the cheese yet, but based on the butter, I'm sure the cheese will be great.

 

Hey Darlene, I'll be ordering a case of that butter soon, you wouldn't happen to have another discount code, would you? I entered the other code and it didn't seem to apply a discount.

[Darlene]

Let me see if I can find another one for you.

[BiscuitMaker]

Hey I need some more cheese and butter, what site are you ordering it from?