Ebola

[Homesteader]

Here's a very good glimpse into how one NGO is tackling the training and distribution of medical supplies in Liberia.

 

http://video.samaritanspurse.org/samaritans-purse-battles-ebola-in-liberia/

 

I read on a news briefing today that one of the main hospitals in Monrovia is seeing a significant decrease in Ebola cases. That's really good news.

[Mt_Rider]

What did they say, Homesteader? I'm running too high on my bandwidth usage.....and couldn't find a current page with stuff to read [not video] from Samaritan's Purse.

 

 

 

Are folks who fly from W Africa ...via a place like Brussels...checked in Brussels? Are they checked when they get off the plane in NY or DC? Apparently a lot can happen in those long flights....how many hours?

 

MtRider Please, God. Let this siege burn itself out!

[Homesteader]

Sorry M.R., I should have attached a link on that doctor's report. I'm sorting through dozens of publications/videos on West Africa, Ebola, and the christian response for several presentations I'm giving at churches this weekend and don't have time to retrace the facts at the moment. Here's another one from a doctor in the epicenter of the epidemic.

 

http://www.kesq.com/news/loma-linda-graduate-working-in-liberia-updates-ebola-progress/29327504

 

MONROVIA, LIBERIA -

Dr. Gillian Seton puts it simply, the general public is not at risk for Ebola.

"The best thing for people to do is to be aware of Ebola, not freak out. One of the things my friend posted was if you haven't touched any vomit, stool, blood or urine of somebody in West Africa, you cannot get Ebola, and that is true"

Dr. Seton has been in Liberia since February and believes the media hype is hurting relief efforts.

"Because there is so much hype, a lot of the shipping companies are not even delivering to Liberia even though there is next to no risk of anybody in the shipping company coming into contact with somebody. And that kind of stuff, especially as the US gets more and more afraid means that we would get less and less support. When you think about the people... I just heard this week one of the Doctors I was working with who volunteered to work on the Ebola center died this week and to me, he is the person that put everything on the line and why people can't see past the end of their noses to allow other people to make the effort to help is really selfish and disappointing."

The time that workers are at the most risk is when they are removing their protective gear.

"You can get to the point that you put on too much gear and then you are less aware of what is potentially contaminated and then it's more difficult to take off. Because I think the point where everybody messes up and gets contaminated is the removal of the gear."

She has some advice for those who want to help with relief efforts.

"I think the thing is for the general public they should research a group or an effort that speaks to them. Money makes the world go around... As much as I hate to say that, money enables us to pay volunteers to work, because the unemployment rate right now in Liberia is sky high because all the offices and buildings are closed. So if we can afford to pay people to come in and help take care of each other that;s a huge asset, because it lets them feed their family and they are willing to take the risk of treating people. That kind of stuff means that we can actually get through this in a way that we can hopefully turn the tide and stop the spread."

[sassenach]

Homesteader, yes, imports to get into West Africa by ship is a grave difficulty. They are having a terrible time getting essentials like food and such too and it is very serious. Becoming very chaotic by now I am sure as this issue has become more severe over the past few weeks. No captain wants to risk his crew, time or ship when there is something so chancy.

[Twilight]

The Doctor Without Borders, Dr. Craig Spencer, that returned and

wandered all over the Harlem.... has tested positive.

[lovinit]

I feel cranky!

My nephew flew to NY, to meet, in person, someone he had met on the internet.

NY really? Is your friend a nurse, doctor,health care worker?

People think we're crazy (we who prep that is). I think it may be others who are mixed up!

The silly goose has his children living with him since his wife left, just in the spring. What would make him think he should have a lady friend at all,this quickly, and why fly away from your family to find her.

I don't want to go anywhere, but locally, and safely, until the world gets this Ebola threat under control and I am just saddened about children being pulled into any possible drama or unnecessary risk

 

Lord please grant me Serenity!

Edited October 26, 2014 by lovinit

[Mt_Rider]

Giving him a good WHACK might help you feel better, Lovinit. ......just sayin' .....

 

 

MtRider ...

[The WE2's]

We're not getting "panicky" about this latest outbreak, but we know that in an economical collapse, a loss of power etc., that there would be no "containment" of any communicable diseases, including std's. When smallpox, measles, flu, whooping cough arrived in our country they were killers. Why? Because the medical fields did NOT have what they needed to treat people. THAT is our concern, what happens "if" any of these re-surface?

[sassenach]

Polio, cholera epidemics in the US history too. Typhoid, there are others. Measles easily killed back in the 1700's. Ebola is very new to humans basically. Current outbreaks in Africa started in mid- 70's. We are in the baby stages of being able to treat it , other than treat the symptoms.

There is not enough simple IV bags nationally here, there is a shortage. I hope they have insisted that get remedied. It is vital.

There is not enough of antivirals ........they are being sent to Africa, they are being sent only to a few main hospitals in the US, set up to treat ebola. I am very concerned about our rural care levels and EMS , many of whom are volunteer and do not , absolutely, have enough funding to provide protective gear or protective transport.

I also see only a few big city hospitals even being chosen to be outfitted.

 

I absolutely do think States have to step up and do isolation if necessary to stop spread, and not mince around with it. And I do not want to hear any whining. Its not for forever, but it is good to stop anyone who goes infective in 21 days...... it can take as long as 42 days in some cases. Find a way to entertain yourself, is how I feel. Its not impossible to stay pretty much by yourself for 3 weeks in a place. I do it all the time. Literally. Once you are clear, you go home and resume normal routine. And maybe nobody else gets sick with it hopefully. I also feel it will go airborne like flu seems to , more like that anyway as time goes on.

 

I am darn tired of half truths and lack of accuracy and straightforwardness with our very political type CDCers and our own Admin. Regarding Ebola.

 

I am glad some of us give a hoot. We want to take care of ourselves and I think at some point it may be very necessary. This Ebola will be around a very long time and we can only hope we can keep it in check. If it does take hold, WE2, it will end up shutting things down for a while, because far too many who work our infrastructure , our banks and such would get sick too. So I hope we can catch it before it gets that way. Sometimes tough stuff has to be done. It's messing up West African business and food supplies now, transportation and such between typical points. WE would be in huge trouble if it got that bad here.

I hope we can avoid it, and it saddens me that so many are dying from it. Up to 70 % now. It certainly qualifies as a Plague.

[Daylily]

1) Chlorine bleach will degrade if a cellulose product [cotton, paper, etc] is left in the solution. But using paper towels (with gloves) to clean with will not reduce the percentage of bleach that quickly.

 

This is my point. The wipes are left in the solution and sit on the store shelves for who knows low long, but as someone said, the Clorox wipes aren't necessarily chlorine bleach but the KC article did say other disinfectants also. That's why I thinks they are a waste of money. What material is the actual wipe made from? It looks like some kind of paper to me. Do the home made wipes recipes use chlorine bleach?

[sassenach]

yea most feisty chemical solutions would degrade something like paper or cellulose ( plant based) after time...... I have even ruined white towels or dishcloths left too long in bleach water....

 

ok.... turned on cnn since it does pretty straight news this time of day.... waiting on more details, but a 5 YEAR OLD CHILD who visited West Africa / or is from there. I am not sure which yet due to ambiguous initial announcement...... so far..... is here in US, not sure which state yet, probably east coast? Has a high fever after arrival, now been initally tested so we wait about 12 hours to see if its Ebola..... the child is hospitalized for now, being treated. In isolation, but definitely inside hospital.

Ah, NY City. Bellevue.

103F Fever and vomiting.

 

And so far, I have not heard of plain stomach flu showing up in school kids yet, ( this school year) so....

 

One of the therapies being done is taking blood /plasma from recovered Ebola patients and then making some thing up with it and treating the newly ill. There is some good result from this so far for a few of the Ebola patients so far treated in US and some possibly being done in Africa ......

 

For the child. I am .

 

And I do expect the child will be publicized as some poster child for Ebola treatment if he makes it, no matter what the family would prefer........ poor kid. Exploited in full by our Govt ..... grrrr. I hope they get their privacy.

[Mt_Rider]

1) Chlorine bleach will degrade if a cellulose product [cotton, paper, etc] is left in the solution. But using paper towels (with gloves) to clean with will not reduce the percentage of bleach that quickly.

 

This is my point. The wipes are left in the solution and sit on the store shelves for who knows low long, but as someone said, the Clorox wipes aren't necessarily chlorine bleach but the KC article did say other disinfectants also. That's why I thinks they are a waste of money. What material is the actual wipe made from? It looks like some kind of paper to me. Do the home made wipes recipes use chlorine bleach?

 

 

Yeah, my point was that the Clorox wipes are definitely not chlorine bleach.....

 

However...you're saying that the KC PDF mentions other disinfectants being affected by cellulose too? That part is new to me. I need to research that. I could not even pronounce/spell the disinfectants on the Clorox wipes label......

 

Here's another point: The material used in those wipes might be a synthetic of some kind tho. A polyester or something? They do not feel "cotton-y" or "paper-y" to me. But....how would we find out?

 

IF Clorox wipes are cellulose and IF the particular disinfectants used ARE affected like chlorine is...then you are correct: they are pretty useless. But those are the two points yet in question. I, for one, certainly want to find out before I continue to buy them!

 

WHAT WE DO KNOW SO FAR CERTAINLY DOES affect anyone's plan for making homemade wipes. Should not be storing the cellulose-based wipes in with a chlorine-based disinfecting solution.

 

I've been trying to get DH to research the effectiveness of the disinfectant that IS in the Clorox wipes......effective against viruses [including E?]. For my current use for them....effectiveness against bird viruses. But he hasn't had a chance yet.

 

 

 

MtRider ....if we keep digging into this, we do become more informed!

Edited October 27, 2014 by Mt_Rider

[Jakk]

I'm not panicking yet, but I tend to look to the "what-if". What if Ebola does get entrenched here? What if medical services are overwhelmed?

 

The gov't is clueless and thinking about THAT is enough to send me to the edge of panicking. We cannot count on the gov't to keep our nation safe.

[Daylily]

It looks like I was putting the two quotes below together. into one thought.

 

Quote from the KC document:

 

"Important: Paper and cotton are cellulose based materials. Cellulose reduces the effectiveness of hypochlorite and hydrogen peroxide. Higher concentrations of the disinfectant can compensate. Do not leave paper towels or cotton cloths in open cleaning bucket containing diluted hypochlorite, for example, as the effective concentration of chlorine will diminish significantly24,25. The use of polypropylene wipes or wipes that contain coated cellulose specifically treated to prevent disinfectant inactivation and absorption exist but must be confirmed with official data from the manufacturer."

 

Another one:

"Important: The effectiveness of many disinfectants, including hypochlorite, are weakened or inactivated by the presence of organic contamination of the surface to be disinfected20,21. Organic substances in this context include blood, vomit, feces, pus and sputum.

 

Another one "70-90% ethyl alcohol (ethanol) based hand sanitizers will destroy lipid enveloped viruses like Ebola very effectively if the organic soiling is not present. This higher concentration than normally recommended is appropriate for disinfecting non-enveloped viruses including Norovirus, thus providing an added safety factor for the more easily disinfected enveloped Ebola virus. (See further rationale for this non-enveloped virus safety factor in the Surface Disinfection section.) The alcohol based hand sanitizer can also be used after a soap and water wash first to remove organic matter (soiling), if present."

[Homesteader]

The nurse in NJ gets to go home from living in a tent. I hope she sues the crap out of the state. Guilty until proven innocent. Not in this country.The attorneys will have a field day with this one. Here's the link on the story.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2808178/Obama-forces-Chris-Christie-U-turn-allow-Ebola-nurse-leave-quarantine-tent.html

[Twilight]

Yes but what if she had tested positive like the doctor? How are they going to know?

She was in contact with ebola patients....

I am neither for or against what they did. But there definitely needs to be at least self imposed

isolation which I really do not believe she would have done.

The doctor knew where he had been and surely knew he was not out of the danger zone and look what he did.

 

It seems like the premise of "it can't happen to me" or "so what our hospitals can treat it".

 

Quite obviously this is "a not everyone will catch it" disease....but how do you test if you are a carrier?

[Mt_Rider]

 

 

The nurse in NJ gets to go home from living in a tent. I hope she sues the crap out of the state. Guilty until proven innocent. Not in this country.The attorneys will have a field day with this one. Here's the link on the story.

 

 

So in a different thread, Homesteader, you said: "Quarantine, yes. Travel ban, no."

 

UNDERSTAND, I can't get my computer to load pages like Daily Mail ...cuz of all those pics. So I crept my way part way down the original article you linked, and tried to get more data from another one...... After 15 minutes of computer wrestling, I give up.

 

Can you just tell me what part of this quarantine was bothering you....enough to declare "I hope she sues the crap out of the state." Why was she in a "tent"? In NJ in Oct? I read that she was from Maine but landed in NJ and ended up in hospital quarantine instead of at-home quarantine. ....couldn't they give her a ride home? She had a fever ....she didn't have a fever...... Do we know?

 

I'm also not sure what the term "guilt" has to do with "ill" or "potentially ill" ........

 

 

 

HAVING ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS.....let me be clear. I am also very nervous about any move to 'normalize' MANDATORY HOLDING of citizens. It can start with such a good idea...protecting the public. I mean that sincerely. BUT it slides so terribly fast into reasons, ways, and means that are not right at all. By 'normalize' I mean....get everyone used to the idea....as in: being groped at the airports. Are we used to that expediency by now?

 

 

 

As I stated earlier, decide policy that does increase safety for citizens. Hire [or volunteer] folks for a period of time which will automatically include a quarantine period. There will still be volunteers but it gets anxious if folks don't know what to expect at all. We need folks to be able to treat folks.....and we need for those folks to be safe themselves and for their loved ones.

 

 

MtRider .....do not think we're doing it right .....yet.

[sassenach]

Mt Rider, that , what you just said about how to quarantine, as a suggestion is what CDC/Feds are going to do now. However, this has been before the Supreme Court many times, and States DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO Quarantine when there is an epidemic. I do think persons doing medical care in the dangerous infected areas should do self quarantine, as all part of that whole venture....... the Feds finally agree that is sensible, but they are still ironing all this out, as are the States, I do think she could have been put on home quarantine for 21 days. This is what they are having her do in fact, and with private transport she is being delivered to Maine and her home.

She would be a laughing stock though, if she tries to push this in court ... she would fail. Or really annoy a judge who decides he will make an example of her in this case. This is just not my own opinion. She has generally annoyed everyone who has heard about it. She has no real regard for anyone else but herself and that just does not fly in the face of something so deadly. I have watched all that show up today. It is quite apparent.

 

If it spread, I can then see the use of tents to quarantine and I admit, they need something to entertain them with, if it can be provided. Still, I just am not into drama queens and she is one. I watched her speak. Hmm. And her lawyer she has, he is an idiot and wanted to slide in there for fame and some money. Cheap.

[Homesteader]

Mt Rider - You asked the other day about my statement on the decrease cases of Ebola in Liberia. I couldn't find the original article but here is another one that says basically the same thing, plus lots more stats. I'll give you the link, but here is the first two paragraphs. I used to have dial-up and understand the frustrations.

 

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/oct/27/hidden-truth-about-ebola/

 

 

Even as Ebola hysteria rages in the US, the epidemic here in Liberia, which is supposed to be its epicenter, seems to be subsiding. According to official counts, this impoverished West African country of 4 million people is currently home to fewer than four hundred Ebola patients. Not millions of patients; not tens of thousands of patients; not even thousands of patients. Fewer than four hundred patients. Even as the World Health Organization warns that any day now we could be seeing thousands of new cases, and Obama’s UN Ambassador Samantha Power claims the global response to the epidemic is “failing,” the number of new cases each week in Liberia is falling, not rising. In August, the streets of Monrovia were strewn with bodies and emergency Ebola clinics were turning away patients. Today, nearly half of the beds in those treatment units are empty. I’ve been here a week and have yet to see a single body in the street. Funeral directors say business is off by half.

 

Of course, the situation remains very serious. More than two thousand have succumbed to the disease here since the outbreak began—along with thousands more in neighboring Sierra Leone and Guinea, according to the CDC—and Liberia faces looming economic and political crises. This fragile country urgently needs help—both for the well being of its own people, and for the safety of the rest of this interconnected world. But the epidemic is far from the cataclysmic disaster currently on display on American TV screens. Why does this matter? By portraying Ebola as an out-of-control threat to humanity—the foolish calls for border controls, the needless and cruel quarantining of a healthy volunteer nurse, the canceling of contracts, trade and other exchanges—US politicians and the media are making the disease harder to fight. And that could make the epidemic far more dangerous than it currently is.

[Mt_Rider]

It would indeed be blessed news to see this monster decline.

 

I FINALLY got into a site that would let me scroll down the page ...re: the nurse. Saw the pics.

 

OK....unheated tents are not going to be the solution for ANY type of quarantine in winter in the north. Did they not have a quarantine-ready hospital in all of NJ??? If their airport is one where these returning flights are coming in, somebody has to get better accommodations than a boy scout jamboree. If she HAD become deathly ill, how could they hope to keep her healthy in that? I realize that conditions in much of rural Africa are probably more primitive than this but again, we are not talking about a year-round warm climate in most of the U.S. On that, I was not impressed.

 

On the other hand, wasn't she only there for 3 days? I wasn't impressed with all the whoohah cuz while it was a bit bizarre, it was a very nice and roomy "boy scout" tent. We lived in far less in Duluth one year....half year....winter drove us out!

 

And finally, I was reading things about how this was approached. I wasn't there but IF she's telling the truth without unnecessary DRAMA....were they really nearly hostile with her as they checked for symptoms upon her return to U.S.? The only reason I think about this is ......I feel like it's a very Uncomfortable environment at the airport security checks. Not quite hostile...most of the time. But those folks can get snappy and cranky. They hold tremendous power and some of them KNOW IT....RELISH IT!

 

THAT CANNOT EVER BE ALLOWED! We will need absolute polite professionalism practiced by any "gatekeepers"! ABSOLUTE! If anything else is allowed, it will degrade into .......demented 2-bit despots able to make life miserable for anyone. Practical and clear protocols and polite administration of them.

 

 

OK....I'm also not reallllly impressed with the BBQ devices used as a medical tool.... deciding whether or not someone goes into quarantine or whether they can fly. How accurate are those steak monitors?

 

MtRider ....so much is disturbing on the whole topic of Ebola

[Mt_Rider]

Here's an interesting practice Scenario....... But I didn't author this one. The BIG GUYS did. It is a WHAT IF......

 

Take a look and see what you think: [PDF...can download.]

 

http://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/uploads/files/bba493f7-cc97-4da3-add6-3deb007cc719.pdf

 

 

Note the date was May 2010

 

 

MtRider

[Mt_Rider]

Some more 'light reading' if you want....that relates to our thread topic. The date is July 31, 2014

 

 

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/07/31/executive-order-revised-list-quarantinable-communicable-diseases

 

 

 

MtRider ....some of these quarantine laws should have expiration dates on them!

[Jakk]

It would indeed be blessed news to see this monster decline.

 

I FINALLY got into a site that would let me scroll down the page ...re: the nurse. Saw the pics.

 

OK....unheated tents are not going to be the solution for ANY type of quarantine in winter in the north. Did they not have a quarantine-ready hospital in all of NJ??? If their airport is one where these returning flights are coming in, somebody has to get better accommodations than a boy scout jamboree. If she HAD become deathly ill, how could they hope to keep her healthy in that? I realize that conditions in much of rural Africa are probably more primitive than this but again, we are not talking about a year-round warm climate in most of the U.S. On that, I was not impressed.

 

On the other hand, wasn't she only there for 3 days? I wasn't impressed with all the whoohah cuz while it was a bit bizarre, it was a very nice and roomy "boy scout" tent. We lived in far less in Duluth one year....half year....winter drove us out!

 

And finally, I was reading things about how this was approached. I wasn't there but IF she's telling the truth without unnecessary DRAMA....were they really nearly hostile with her as they checked for symptoms upon her return to U.S.? The only reason I think about this is ......I feel like it's a very Uncomfortable environment at the airport security checks. Not quite hostile...most of the time. But those folks can get snappy and cranky. They hold tremendous power and some of them KNOW IT....RELISH IT!

 

THAT CANNOT EVER BE ALLOWED! We will need absolute polite professionalism practiced by any "gatekeepers"! ABSOLUTE! If anything else is allowed, it will degrade into .......demented 2-bit despots able to make life miserable for anyone. Practical and clear protocols and polite administration of them.

 

 

OK....I'm also not reallllly impressed with the BBQ devices used as a medical tool.... deciding whether or not someone goes into quarantine or whether they can fly. How accurate are those steak monitors?

 

MtRider ....so much is disturbing on the whole topic of Ebola

 

The tent is in and indoor facility, not outside.

[Twilight]

There are people beginning to wonder.............

Does Ebola affect the mind..........

1 remember Patrick and his rage ? was his mind effected?

2 Duncan lying about not being around Ebola

3 Dr.Chris saying he self contained and yet he went bowling ,

to a restaurant, rode on the tube, but did not have fever, though fatigue.

I am sure he did not want to have ebola and not be treated for it.

4 The aggression of this latest case Did you you know she is with the CDC?

Does she or doesn't she have ebola, time will tell, fever is not a definite

symptom nor lack of it.

I read elsewhere that people are taking tylenol before flights.... that would hide fever if they have it.

[Daylily]

Aggression is a symptom in some cases, I've read so that means it does effect the mind, I would think. How could it not with all the bleeding from every surface in some patients?