Sourdough…

[Annarchy]

I’m beginning to think there is no yeast in my house.  Yeah, I clean it every week, as spotless as I can.  
 

However, I started a batch of starter, a month & an half ago.  Two weeks later it finally overflowed my jar.  I followed the recipe to make bread….it was a disaster… it didn’t rise, even after 4 days!  Baked it, but uncooked dough in the center….birds got it.  
 

So I started a new batch, barely even any bubbles, before I went to TX, fed it, stuck it in the fridge.  Got home, took it out, fed & watered it, and it still hasn’t done anything!!!  I have rubber bands marking the levels on both jars, but nothing is happening!  
 

What an I doing wrong?  
 

The first jar was extremely aromatic..yeasty…but, didn’t rise when I prepped it for baking…  

[Dee]

I'm no help but hopefully someone will be along shortly that knows something.  I'll be interested in their response too as I've never had any luck with it either.

[Jeepers]

Sorry Annarchy but I'm no help either.  

[Ambergris]

Sourdough seems to have a mind of its own.  Different colonies have different tastes, different temperature preferences, everything.  Have you tried starting over?

[snapshotmiki]

I haven't even tried it.  Closest I have come is making the salt rising bread using a potato and cornmeal.  That is hit and miss.

[Mother]

You might want to start with a boughten specific sour dough starter to get the culture established in your kitchen. Some areas are just not conductive to continued culture growth. Heat kills cultures though in our temperature controlled AC home environment you wouldn’t think it would make a difference but the culture has to get there somehow.   But remember, once established it could affect other breads you might want to make.  The old ‘49ers’ didn’t have a lot of competing cultures so had a pretty consistent product but also lived in an area that wasn’t overly hot. Even then, when a person got a really great tasting and working culture it was treasured and protected. 

[Annarchy]

Heat…makes sense… we have been awfully hot the last few months.  
 

I will keep trying….  

[Annarchy]

Alright, I’ve asked a couple people about sour dough….  They each have advised me…..then posted their baked bread!  Now, I really feel bad……….really really bad!  
 

Makes me think of the Israelites leaving Egypt…unleavened bread because they didn’t have time to  make yeast bread.  

 

My jar, pint, I fed daily, putting the excess into a quart jar.  I gained 1/8”, maybe a day.  
 

Mother, you mentioned heat…. Our house is set at 73°. My friend mentioned too cool….  I set my jars outside, early in the morning, 78-100°. I actually got 1/2 inch increase and a slight odor of yeast.  I’m hopeful….  Feed them everyday….  2021 flour, frozen, to kill bugs, then jarred in 1/2 gallon jars with oxygen absorbers.  I feed them every day, around the same time… nothing…. A few bubbles…..  but… thanks a lot to my friends for sending me pictures of their sourdough overwhelmingly bubbling!  I am NOT getting that!  A few small bubbles….  

 

Then, they sent me pictures of their bread!    Talk about complete disappointment…….  Nuf said…..
 

I feel so inadequate….. 

 

I decided to pour out the starter into bowls…covered with cheesecloth.  I’ve been feeding it daily… I have to pull off 1/4” of a crust on top, before I can mix more flour& water!?!  I have taken it outside in the morning, let it get whatever it needs to, and warm up a touch……until our temps exceed 100°. Yeah, it’s still hot here….

 

Today, I had to get another jar of flour….  Sigh…. As I removed stacks of jars, a whole-wheat 1/2 gallon jar was broken, along the bottom seam, with oxygen absorbers in it .   Cleaned the mess, pulled the last 2020 jar of flour and the other jar of whole wheat flour.  Decided to feed my starter with whole wheat….nothing else seems to be working…The bowl that kinda smells slightly like yeast….started bubbling immediately….!   I’m putting the bowls in the oven with the light on…. Warner then the counter….

 

 I’m still trying…
 

If’n I ever get a starter that works….I’m gonna guard it with my life!

[Annarchy]

Oh, I’m using non GMO unbleached flour….

[Jeepers]

I don't know anything about it but the thought crossed my mind, I wonder if freezing flour would make any difference? Would it kill something needed? Probably not. 

[Annarchy]

27 minutes ago, Jeepers said:

I don't know anything about it but the thought crossed my mind, I wonder if freezing flour would make any difference? Would it kill something needed? Probably not. 

DH mentioned that too.  However, if I don’t freeze the flour first, for only 24 hours, I get bugs, within a few weeks.  Those little brown or black tiny beetles are terrible.  However, I keep my yeast in the freezer, it still works fantastic…every time I use it, and it’s over 8 years old!  It has never failed…PTL!  
 

I am trying to make honest, original, sourdough.  No store bought yeast, no ‘bread flour’, just the original old fashioned sourdough.  Mainly, because DH is having problems with various ‘loaf’ breads from the stores.  I’d like to see if basic, historical bread, has the same effect on him…. 
 

Except, the dough hasn’t been cooperative…..yet.  Lol

[Mother]

Sourdough is a culture very similar to bread yeast.  Freezing does not kill it but preserves it to thaw and use again to start another batch.  You could even consider keeping a started mixture in the refrigerator, perhaps in the door where it is usually warmer.  Start your dough as normal and let it work.  Make sure it has a nice yeasty smell and is ‘working’ (a bit bubbly).  Use some to set a batch of dough/sponge overnight, ( that is the historic way bread was made), feed the rest and let it work a few hours and then refrigerate. When needed again take it out to warm, use some for bread and repeat.  
 

As for having trouble with bread you might check to see if he has the same problems with quick breads made with soda or non-aluminum baking powder. (Baking powder biscuits or soda bread)  If not then suspect the yeast.  If yes, suspect the flour or perhaps gluten.  

Edited September 3, 2023 by Mother

[Littlesister]

I hope you can get one going soon. I want to try making it again. Been a long time since I have done it. Will try after I get house back together again.

[Annarchy]

Aug. 25…, “…..a month & an half ago…”.  June is when I started it….

 

Every single day, I have poured off the dark liquid, added flour and water.  No growth, what so ever.  It kinda smells like yeast, sort of, the container I’ve been using for the leftovers, smells great, but, it was an uncleaned Gatorade container I’m pitching.

 

Today, I poured off the dark liquid, changed the jar to a pint wide mouth, added the flour & water, to make an half cup… figuring to put it into the fridge while I go to TX, until Sunday afternoon, when I get back.

 

Ooh my goodness!  The pint jar is now an inch below the top….and still rising!   Murphy’s law for me.  I’ve been trying all  this time to get it to rise, nothing….. and today, I don’t have the time to make bread….
   I will stick it in the frig…and hope it’s still good when I get back home.    I have sincerely  tried….

[Littlesister]

Annarchy, I hope it goes well. And when you get back, I hope you will be able to make a great loaf of sourdough bread.

[Jeepers]

Stick a pan or saucer or something under it while you are gone so if it keeps rising it doesn't make a mess for you. Murphy's Law indeed. 

Safe travels friend.  

[Mother]

Take part of it and put it in the freezer to use as a starter later. Feed the rest as usual and put it in the fridge, lie Jeepers says on a plate or ? Until you get back.  Then let it warm and work (if it isn’t), maybe overnight, before adding to it again. 
 

Stay safe on your travels.  

[euphrasyne]

Make your own sourdough by using yeast and letting it sit out.  Don't just wait for the air to bring it.  Sourdough likes heat better than cold.  Freezing flour is fine, but let the flour come to room temperature before you use it.  You can actually freeze the starter then thaw it out and use it.  It can also be dehydrated and rehydrated (I was sent some at one point a few decades back.)  

 

If you are getting that much dark liquid (hooch) off your starter, then you are not feeding it enough. Hooch=starving yeast.  You need to feed it more.  Also, you need to use it every 1-2  days if on the counter.  If you are keeping it in the fridge, it will take MUCH longer to rise and you should use and feed it every 4-5 days.   Pour off a cup, feed it and keep going.   The easiest and most common feed is a 1:1:1 ratio of starter:water:flour.  Some people also use other things in the feed such as potato flakes, but that can be more tricky for ratios and is slightly more advanced.    Also, it would do better in a bigger container like a quart.   It gives you more room to work with.  

[euphrasyne]

I forgot to say that the warmer your counter is, the faster it will work so you need to feed it even more often.  If your kitchen stays in the 80s you should remove a cup daily and feed it or sometimes even every 12-18 hours if it is very warm.  The cooler the environment, the longer you can go between using/feeding.  If you need to feed it without using it, just pour a cup off and toss it.  Ideally, you always want at LEAST 2c of starter which is why I suggested a quart jar--that gives you room to mix or overflow.   If you have it in a pint, it will be almost impossible to get your ratios correct.  

[Annarchy]

 

My starter is alive!

 

My first loaf, made in a cast iron Dutch oven, using parchment paper…

 

 

Not the greatest, over cooked slightly….

 

Fed it 2 weeks and… decided to use one of my bread pans…

 

I had a pan of water in the oven with it, probably should have let it ‘crisp’ for color, however, toasting it has worked great for that.

 

 I’m keeping about a cup active, it grows 1/2 its size, then, mellows out daily.  

 

I will refrigerate it when I go to TX next week.  Hopefully, it’s still good when I get home.  
 

DH liked it.  

[Mother]

Congratulations on your success AND a beautiful loaf. 👏😁

[Jeepers]

YOU DID IT!  

[Littlesister]

Congratulations, Anarchy, that turned out really well. 

[euphrasyne]

That looks great!  Congratulations on getting it going!

 

I also make pancakes, muffins, cornbread, etc with sourdough.  

Misc Sourdough Recipes from my recipe file:

SIMPLE SOURDOUGH BATTER BREAD
2 c sourdough starter
1 tsp salt
2 Tbsp butter or olive oil
1/2 c milk
2 Tbsp sugar
3 c flour
Mix all ingredients, adding flour 1/2 cup at a time (you may not need it all depending on thickness of your starter). Batter will be quite thick. Spoon into a greased loaf pan. Let rise until about double (1-2 hours). Bake at 375° F for 40-50 minutes.

SUE'S SALT RISING BREAD
Starter:
3 medium-sized potatoes
1 tsp sugar
4 c boiling water
3 Tbsp cornmeal
1 tsp salt

Dough:
2 c lukewarm milk
2 Tbsp melted shortening
1/8 tsp baking soda
1 c water
1/8 tsp salt
flour

Pare and slice potatoes. Add corn meal, sugar, 1 teaspoon salt, and boiling water. Wrap bowl in a heavy cloth. Cover and allow to stand in a warm place overnight.

In the morning, remove potatoes. Add milk, water, baking soda, salt, and shortening. Add sufficient flour to make a dough just stiff enough to knead. Knead until smooth and elastic; form into loaves. Place in well-oiled pans. Cover and let rise until double in bulk. Bake in moderate oven (about 400° F) for about 45 minutes. Makes 3 loaves.

 

ANOTHER POTATO STARTER
4 c unbleached flour
2 Tbsp sugar
2 Tbsp salt
4 c lukewarm potato water

Put all ingredients in a crock or large glass bowl and let stand in a warm place, uncovered, several days.

 

POTATO SOURDOUGH STARTER
1 x unbleached flour
1 x potato water (left from boiling potatoes - waste not want not!)

Boil some potatoes for supper, save the water, use it lukewarm with enough flour to make a thick batter. Let it stand a day or so until it smells right. Mmmm... sourdough smell!

SOUTHERN SOURDOUGH BREAD
1 pkg yeast (1 Tbsp)
1 c bread flour
1 tsp salt
2 1/2 c warm water
2 c potato flakes
1/2 c sugar
Dissolve yeast in 1/2 cup warm water. Add water, flour, salt, sugar, and potato flakes; mix well. Put in glass or plastic bowl (NO METAL!). Let stand uncovered (I cover mine with a thin cotton dish towel) on counter for 3 days, cover at night. Stir down as necessary. Transfer to a glass jar, cover, and refrigerate 3 to 5 days. Makes about 2 cups. (This is supposed to smell “spoiled”!)

To continue starter:

Take 1 cup of starter for bread. Add to the remaining starter: 3 Tablespoons potato flakes, 1 cup warm water, and 3/4 cup sugar. Mix well. Let stand on counter 8 to 10 hours, stirring as necessary. Refrigerate and use within 6 days. (I have lost my starter on the 7th day, so I use it, or feed it and give away a starter on or before the 6th day)

 To make bread:
1 c starter
2 tsp salt
1 1/2 c warm water
6 c bread flour
1/3 c sugar
1/2 c vegetable oil

Remove 1 cup starter, feed remaining starter. Let the starter for the bread reach room temperature. Mix flour, sugar, and salt. Make a well in mixture, and add starter, warm water and oil. Beat until blended well. Oil top of dough, cover with plastic wrap, and let rise until tripled in size, 4 to 12 hours.

Beat down, turn dough onto floured surface, and knead 8 to 10 minutes. Divide into 3 parts, shape into loaves, and place in well greased pans. Oil top of loaves. Cover with plastic wrap, let rise 5 to 6 hours, until tripled in size.
Preheat oven to 350 degrees F, bake bread 30 to 40 minutes. Bread will rise about 1 inch during baking. The fresher the starter (first 3 days) the quicker the bread rises. (I have never had it take as long as the recipe suggests to rise the with either rising.)

*I have used the starter in other recipes that call for starter (rolls, pancakes, etc).

*The bread is wonderful. I really like this recipe because you have to add yeast only when you originally make the starter.

 

SOURDOUGH STRAWBERRY BRAID
*Please note – this one takes a long time!
1 Tbsp yeast
1/2 c warm water
1/2 c sourdough starter
4-5 c flour
1/4 sugar
4 Tbsp melted
3/4 tsp salt
1 egg
2/3 c strawberry or other preserves
powdered sugar icing, if desired

Dissolve yeast in warm water. Set aside 5 minutes. Add 1/2 cup starter and 1 cup flour. Mix thoroughly and let stand 8 hours.

Next day, stir to dissolve crust that has formed. Add 2 cups flour, sugar, butter, salt, and egg. Mix thoroughly. Add enough remaining flour to form a soft, smooth ball. Place in a greased bowl and turn. Cover and let rise 1 hr.

Punch down dough. Make a 9-inch square, and place preserves down the middle third. With scissors, cut strips 3" long and 1" wide on both sides of middle third. Fold strips towards center, alternating sides, over filling. Place on greased sheet.

Cover, let rise until double, about 30 minutes.

Bake at 375° F for 30-40 minutes, or until done. Cool on wire rack. Drizzle with powdered sugar icing, if desired.

MOTHEREARTH'S EVERLASTING YEAST
1 quart warm potato water
1/2 cake of yeast (or 1/2 Tbsp dry yeast)
1 tsp salt
2 Tbsp sugar
2 Tbsp flour

Stir in all ingredients well, put in warm place to rise until ready to mix for baking. Leave a small amount to keep the yeast going. Keep in a cool place, and add to the yeast all of the above ingredients EXCEPT the yeast. Do this each time and you will never run out of yeast, this is somewhat like sourdough.

SOURDOUGH NOT-JUST-BREAD
Sourdough bread is so easy and tasty, but sometimes I like something different. A big advantage to using a sourdough starter is that you don't need to keep a store of yeast. You can probably adapt your favorite sourdough recipe as follows:

1. Pizza Crust:

Let it rise as usual, but right before baking, stretch it out on a baking pan and use it as a pizza crust. Top it with sauce and toppings, and I usually bake on the lower rack for almost 30 minutes at 350° F.

*I tried spreading it out then letting it rise in the pizza pan once, and it was "fluffy", but I like it better like above.

*We sometimes fix one pizza and two bread loaves.

2. Cinnamon Rolls:

Prepare up until the point of placing in the bread pan to rise. Roll out. Melt 1 Tbsp margarine, and add 1 tsp ground cinnamon. Spread on dough with brush. Sprinkle with 1/4 c sugar. Roll up, cut, and place in pan. Let rise. Bake at 375° F for 20-25 minutes. Drizzle with icing. Refrigerate remaining rolls.

Cinnamon Roll Icing: Mix 1 c powdered sugar, a dash of salt, and 1/4 tsp vanilla with a little milk to a fluid consistency.

3. Sourdough on a Stick:

(I have not tried this but it sounds interesting!!)

You need: sourdough bread dough, or use dough made from plain pancake batter using less liquid than called for.

Optional - honey, cinnamon, butter

Prepare the dough. Roll pieces of dough into long skinny sausages about 1/4" thick. Wet a green stick and heat it over the coals. Wrap the dough around the warmed stick. Hold the dough over the hot coals until baked, turning to prevent burning.

*Dip the dough in a mixture of melted honey, butter, and cinnamon before baking if desired.

Edited October 14, 2023 by euphrasyne